The Wonder of Words -- Adventures with Picture Book Author Beth Ferry

This podcast episode explores Beth Ferry's love for words and the impact of her picture books on empathy, friendship, and environmental awareness.

00:43: Guest Introduction 

• Dr. Diane welcomes Beth Ferry, an acclaimed author known for books like Stick and Stone,  Christmassy Cactus, and the upcoming Solar Bear

 00:46: The Power of Words

• Beth shares her favorite words, "anticipation" and "vehement," and discusses the joy of mastering and using impactful words.
• Dr. Diane emphasizes the importance of vocabulary enrichment and recalls childhood experiences with words like loquacious (Thank you , Mrs. Ledbetter).
• Beth reflects on the magic of words when used effectively in writing.

07:11: Journey to Becoming an Author 

Beth discusses her love for reading, her journey from being an English major to becoming an author, discovering picture books with her children, and her decision to pursue writing.

10:25: Writing Process and Stick and Stone

• Beth's writing process, including setting word limits
• Evolution of Stick and Stone and the joy of seeing it resonate with children.

12:36: Using Books in Professional Development

• Dr. Diane shares an innovative professional development activity using Beth's book, Swashby and the Sea
•  Connecting books with important themes in teaching

14:35: Inspiring Teachers 

• Surprising ways teachers use Beth's books in the classroom.

 18:11: New Books: Christmassy Cactus 

•  Inspiration behind Christmassy Cactus, an unusual holiday story about belief, anticipation, and taking action.

21:51: Solar Bear and Environmental Activism 

• Solar Bear shines a light on environmental issues and the importance of inspiring awareness and action.
• Dr. Diane and Beth delve into the challenge of addressing environmental issues in picture books and the role of literature in initiating conversations with young readers.
• Beth emphasizes the significance of picture books in gently introducing important topics and sparking discussions.

25:43: Challenges in Education 

• Dr. Diane and Beth touch upon challenges in education, including time constraints for reading aloud in the classroom.

29:04: Current Projects 

30:54 Finding Joy and Hope 

Transcript

[00:01] Dr Diane: Wonder, curiosity, connection. Where will your adventures take you? I'm Dr. Diane, and thank you for joining me on today's episode of Adventures in Learning. Welcome to the adventures in learning podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Diane, and today we are welcoming an author who has become a favorite of mine. And I know she's a favorite of element school teachers everywhere. This is Beth Ferry. She currently has a book out called Christmassy Cactus, and I'm really excited about the upcoming Solar Bear, but you'll also know her from Stick and Stone and so many others. So, Beth, welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast.

[00:43] Beth: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[00:46] Dr Diane: So when I met you, you were at the Shenandoah University Children's Literature Conference, and one of the things that struck me is your fascination with words. Can you tell us what your two favorite words are?

[01:01] Beth: It's funny because I think about this more than I probably should. Like, what's my favorite word? Because you don't realize you love words. When you're young, you love reading, you love books, but you don't really stop and think about most things, like you love cake. You don't think about the ingredients, where obviously books are words. I can't really remember the day that I was like, I love words, but you can love them for so many reasons. But anticipation, right? I mean, it's just such a big they're such good words, love and hope and home. But anticipation is because I think those are my favorite times in life, right? Not when you're doing it, but when you're anticipating it. So for that reason, for the meaning. I love the word anticipation, and I think I talked about this like the word vehement, and I love that word because it's a great meaning, but it's also, like, hard to attack. And the first time you're probably meeting it is when you don't know how to pronounce it or what it means, right? And so looking at it and you're just like and I think those become your favorites because I don't know, it feels like you've mastered it, right? You've figured out how to pronounce it, you know what it means. You don't really use it a lot in life, like maybe in writing, but not in speaking. But there are sometimes when you read a sentence, not even one you've written, but mainly one that you're reading in a book and you're just like it's like magic. Like those certain way words are just words. Anyone has access to them, but when someone puts them together in the right order and you're like, wait, can I read this out loud? Is anyone here that I can read this out loud to? Because it's so beautiful. So? Yeah. I don't know. And I feel like all writers must love words, right? Right.

[02:50] Dr Diane: And good teachers get us inspired to love those. Know, I was thinking about when I was in third grade, I had this teacher, Mrs. Ledbetter, and when we had space and time, she would send us to the dictionary with no assignment but just to read the words and find one that you had to use at least three times that day, and that's gone.

[03:11] Beth: Right there's no more.

[03:12] Dr Diane: But loquacious was my word. When do I use loquacious in a sentence? But as an eight year old, I loved that word.

[03:20] Beth: And you know what else, too? I think that the mastery of vocabulary. Not just words, but vocabulary. It seems like when you're a writer, you're always aware of age appropriate. Right. You need to use age appropriate words. Well, first of all, what does that even mean? Because even kids are in such different ranges, I think if they don't know it, what a great opportunity if they come across a word that they don't know? And I mean, I hope and truly, I have no idea. Like, when I see a word I don't know, I look it up. I always do. Does everyone do that? Probably.

[03:57] Dr Diane: I don't know.

[03:58] Beth: But context, it's another way to just in the context you can get. But what a gift to I don't know, just treat words like a treat.

[04:08] Dr Diane: And that's exactly how she treated them. And I feel like good writing does that.

[04:12] Beth: Yeah, it does. It makes you interested. It's like oh. What? Or even just spelling. The English language is such a combination of so many things, and I think sometimes when you're like, oh, where did this word, oh, it came from this, like, so far away or so long ago, and I want to say, and I can't remember the word now, is it nice? Is the word. It wasn't nice. I'm not going to think of it now, but it was something that was such a negative word, and now in our culture, it's a positive word, and I don't think it was nice, but it was something like that, something so common, and I think, like, oh, fascinating, like just how it evolves through the centuries.

[04:53] Dr Diane: Right. And I know you didn't write this, but you turned me on to The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows and the words in that book.

[05:01] Beth: Exactly.

[05:02] Dr Diane: It's just amazing to spend time thinking about language, and it makes you want to come up with your own words.

[05:07] Beth: That's the thing. When you read this, you're like, a lot of them are port manteau's, where he just takes two words and puts them together, but some he just kind of just changes the spelling of a regular word. But the way he defines them I know, it makes me it makes me want to write my own dictionary, which how fun is that?

[05:26] Dr Diane: Well, and thinking about STEAM and kids learning, what a great opportunity for them once they sort of have mastery of what their vocabulary words mean. Can you create new words? How do you create new words?

[05:37] Beth: Right. And I mean, even when you start looking now I can't remember why I was doing it. But you can see what words because I guess published dictionaries, they can't print all the words, so they have to decide. But even online dictionaries, they delete words every year and they add words every year. And I think, like, there's a job. Right?

[06:00] Dr Diane: Right. Well, and it gets you thinking about that book Frindle from all those years ago where he called a pen a frindle and went through this whole campaign to turn it into a word.

[06:12] Beth: Oh, my gosh, I haven't read that book. I should really read that book.

[06:17] Dr Diane: Andrew Clements, it was such a good book.

[06:19] Beth: Yeah. And it just like, I love books that make you think in a way that you've never thought before. You just don't think that way. And I think when you're young, you just know what's in your probably maybe now. I mean, it's so different now. Like, kids are traveling the world when they're young, but when you're years ago, when I was young, our biggest vacation was, like, going to New York, and we lived in New Jersey.

[06:43] Dr Diane: Right.

[06:43] Beth: We didn't go very far. And so it was your environment that defined almost everything that you know. Now I feel like it's such a bigger world for kids. There's absolutely everywhere. Yeah, it's very cool.

[07:00] Dr Diane: So let's talk about your journey from that smaller world to the bigger world of books. Tell us a little bit about how you became an author. What were your adventures in learning to get here?

[07:11] Beth: It's so funny because I do feel like so many authors have the same journey. Like, we love to read, but for me, I did love to read, and I was an English major in college because I was like, wait, I can just read books? And that's college okay. Without any plan at all. I had no plan. What was I going to do? I didn't think I wanted to be a teacher, so I just was an English major with no plan, which I think now when my kids tell me one of my kids, their major is Peace and Justice Studies, and I'm like, okay, that sounds a lot like an English major. Like, what are you doing with that? Right. But I just was like, I don't know, it just seemed like the smart thing to do to pursue something that you loved. And then when I graduated, I was like, oh, I'm not really qualified to do anything, or I'm qualified to do everything. Right. Right. But I thought about publishing for a very short minute when I looked in the paper back then, and it was like they paid nothing. It was like $12,000 a year even then. It wasn't a lot of my first job was out of college in the registrar's office, just doing things like certifying students for graduation. And I got my Master's in Education while I was there, but still never wanting to be a teacher. And then, like, again, I'm taking a long time getting here, but I had kids, and I rediscovered picture books. And I was like, Wait a minute. And I say rediscovered, but I don't even remember.. I remember books, but I don't remember what I think of the classic defining moment of a child on your lap at bedtime. And you're like, there's nothing honestly more intimate than that. Like you're sharing a book that you like. They like, there's just the magic. I don't remember that as a child. I remember books, but not that. But when I did that with my kids, and I guess this was in the late 90s, very early 2000s, and the books that I was reading, Room on the Broom and Little Pea, Seven Silly Eaters. Yes, just like, books that everybody loved. And I thought, this is something. This is just something. And I was like, I want to do that. But of course, I had three kids, and they were under four. And so I wasn't doing that for a while, but blah, blah, blah. I stayed home with my kids for a long time. And then when they were growing up, I was like, you know what? It's like now or never, basically. And I was like, I'm going to try. And so that, really I think my youngest was in 7th grade, and I thought, I'm going to try to write a picture book. And so I did. I wrote a lot of really bad, bad picture books. And I joined SCBWI, which is truly, like, the story of all my friends. This is how you do it. You learn the hard way, and you think you know what you're doing. Because if you're well read in the genre that you're writing, you're like, what else can you do? And so that seems like it should be education enough, but it's not. And I wasn't really thinking about it as a business. I was thinking about it as a passion. Like, I love this. I want to make someone feel the way that I felt when I read Library Lion. Like, that kind of thing. And that takes learning. And I did, and I learned and I learned. And then I thought, I have to treat this like a job. And so I started to write every day, and I started to realize that my comfort zone is long, but you can't write long. So I started to give myself limits on the number of words that I allowed myself to tell my story. And then I wrote Stick and Stone, and I wrote it at first in prose, and I think it was just, I don't know, 600 words. And I was like, it's too long. So then I said, Let me try it in rhyme. And once I wrote it in rhyme, obviously, and they're not even complete sentences, but I was able to tell the story in very few words. So that was my long journey, and I told it in a very long way.

[11:25] Dr Diane: You know what? That's okay. You're allowed to. And I have to tell you, I used Stick and Stone this summer with some library kids, and when I pulled that book out, they just glowed, they knew the book, and were so excited hearing it.

[11:35] Beth: It never gets old, and sometimes it just feels like it's beyond you, and I think, like, oh, yeah, I wrote that, and yet it seems so long ago, and yet every time I see it right now in your background, and it makes me smile.

[11:56] Dr Diane: And that's one of the things about books, is you write and the illustrator illustrates, and then the reader comes in, and they make it their own, and it becomes a different kind of transaction.

[12:09] Beth: It's such a great point because it seems like it's so obvious once it's done, but it's not. You don't know who your illustrator is going to be. You don't know what the art is going to look like. You don't know how it's all going to marry. It's such a fantastical experience when you first see the illustrations and you realize, oh, this is what my book is now.

[12:36] Dr Diane: With Swashby and the Sea — I’ve been using that one a lot this summer because I've been doing professional development for teachers — and so one of the things I'll do is I'll have them at lunch. I give them these special pens, and they write down all the terrible things people have told them about teaching. We're not paid enough. It's too hard for early childhood educators. You're a babysitter or you play all day. And then what I'll do is, while they're at lunch, I go in and I take a permanent marker, and I go over the positive words. And then these are frixion  pens, and so I use heat when they're back, and we erase all the negatives, and it just leaves the positive words there. And then I read them Swashby and the Sea to show them the power of words and of making a difference.

[13:21] Beth: Okay, that's amazing. That's amazing. Okay. Wow. I love that. Wow.

[13:27] Dr Diane: They love the book because then they're thinking about, okay, how can I bring this message to my children? And so then they're taking it in, and they're bringing it back to the classroom so that they can read it and talk about the power of our words and changing our messages. So it's just a cool way to take your book and add that STEM theme.

[13:45] Beth: I love that. Well, and it's funny, too, because I thought when I was writing it, I was like, oh, I'm going to have a worksheet that goes along with this, and I'm going to try to come up with similar to Now Vanish. And it was very hard. I thought this was going to be like, really even writing the book, those parts would be so easy, and it was way more challenging, and I never did it. I couldn't actually come up with, like, I wanted, like, ten examples where I could say to the kids, like, okay, here's a sentence now guess I couldn't do it. It was hard.

[14:20] Dr Diane: It is hard.

[14:21] Beth: And so this worked.

[14:23] Dr Diane: And it's definitely a really interesting way to get them to do that.

[14:29] Beth: That's what I love. It makes you think differently exactly. About what you're doing. So good for you. That's awesome.

[14:35] Dr Diane: And you do lots of author visits, I'm assuming. So what are some of the fascinating, surprising, unexpected ways you've seen teachers using your work?

[14:45] Beth: You know what's crazy? You don't see that. That is the truth. You don't see teachers using your work because you're really there for an assembly. And so you never get invited into the, I never go to the classroom. And sometimes you'll see art. I've seen some ways that the art teachers have used, but I don't really ever get to see you go in, you talk to the kids. Some of their questions are amazing, but I don't know how they use my book. It's sad.

[15:14] Dr Diane: So maybe that's something we need to change on author visits, is to invite you into a classroom.

[15:18] Beth: Right. And so you can see yeah, because what you're saying now, maybe that's happening. And I know Stick and Stone, they use them for kindness and how to stand up, which is I know that just from Instagram posts and things, but yeah, I don't know that. I would like to know that.

[15:37] Dr Diane: So we now need teachers to start tagging you when they're using their books.

[15:40] Beth: Right, exactly. Because I'm sure it's way more creative than I would ever come up with. What you just said I love so much. I want to somehow use that because now my youngest child is starting her first year as a teacher, as a dance teacher. But still, she's so young, and she's in a 2-8 school teaching dance, and so she has so many grade levels, and her big thing is she's ordering every picture book she can find on dance, and it brings me, like, wants she's like, I need a library in my classroom. Even though we're dancing, I want kids to know that there are books and that they can take and borrow and read about dancing, and it makes me so happy.

[16:23] Dr Diane: Tell her to look for Corinna Luyken's ABC And You And Me. It's an alphabet book, and it's yoga, and the bodies are in all the different shapes of the letters. It's such a cool book. It just came out.

[16:35] Beth: All right, I have to write it down now. ABC And You And Me.? Yeah. Okay. All right. Awesome. Yeah, that's cool. So the bodies make the letters.

[16:45] Dr Diane: The bodies make the letters, and it's adults, and kids working together, and it's so adorable.

[16:51] Beth: Okay. Awesome. Oh, that's fun. I'll get it for her. I won't even tell her. I'll just get it for her. She'll like, that yeah, that's nice. Awesome.

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[18:11] Dr Diane: So then you've got a couple of new books coming out. I know right about now you've got the Christmassy Cactus. Tell us about that one.

[18:33] Beth: Yeah, I know. I have it right here. So I just got my author copies, which, again, this is the kind of stuff in life that you know joy. You do you know joy, right? You have kids, you know joy. But when you get your book, I swear, I truly think, like, there's really nothing better than holding it in your don't. And I can't remember what this is. The other sad thing. I don't always remember why I get an idea, but I decided that I was going to write a story about a cactus who was like, a pet. I feel like I have pets, but I also treat my plants as pets. And so the idea is that the cactus is a pet of this little girl, and she's beloved by her little girl until her first Christmas where everybody gets busy. And so she just sees the house transformed and all the decorations, and she keeps waiting to be decorated because everything's decorated, and the Christmas tree, which is also green, is decorated. And so she's like, well, any day now, I'll be decorated. And of course, she doesn't get decorated, and so she lives on a bookshelf, and so she reads all the Christmas books, and she's like, Wait a minute. You can make a Christmas wish. And so she has a wish to be decorated, but again, it never happens. And then finally at the end, I don't really want to give it away because the end is my favorite part, but it all works out for her. And it's funny because it's really hard to break into holiday books because there are so many classics and great ones. And so your publisher is mainly reluctant to do a holiday book. But you know how I love Halloween. I love Christmas. So I've been working for years, for years to try to and I finally have a Christmas book, so I'm super excited about it. But it's really about believing in yourself. It's like she's waiting for something to happen, but you can't just wait for something to happen to you. You have to make sure that it happens. And so it's that hopefully like a little bit of empowerment to go do it yourself if it's not happening.

[20:40] Dr Diane: Well, and that seems to be a common theme from your books, is sort of that sense of empowerment and connection that all of your characters have. Sort of a sense of humor, but there is that sense of sort of standing up for yourself and standing up for others.

[20:56] Beth: I think when you first start writing whatever, you have your ideas. I really like to write about the beach because I love the beach. They say, Write what you know, which I totally agree with. But then I also love to do research about silly things that I know nothing about. But you can't kind of help it, right? When you write, you don't even know that you're kind of doing the same thing. Sometimes I'll look and I'll be like, oh, friendship book, friendship book, friendship book, friendship book. Oh, my gosh, I have so many friendship books. I don't even mean to, sometimes you're not even meaning to write a friendship books, but that's what you write. And so now that I have a number of books, it's funny to look at them. And I see sometimes, oh, these are the themes that obviously are important to me, even if I don't really know it myself. I can see it just from what I write.

[21:51] Dr Diane: So let's talk about the Solar Bear book then. That feels like it's a little bit different than some of the other books.

[21:58] Beth: Yeah, and it's my first I don't even want to call it like an environmental activism kind of a book, but it kind of is like, I read it. Didn't I read it?

[22:10] Dr Diane: I think you did, yeah. And if you want to share a little bit about it here, feel free.

[22:15] Beth: Yeah. I wish I had pictures. I don't have pictures yet. And this is the other thing. It's coming out in March and I'm kind of like, when are the pictures going to be done? But it's basically I was watching a video, I think there's a video of a polar bear, a very thin polar bear, like, swimming in an empty and you read it all the time about there's so many things that can break your heart, right? Especially in nature with global warming and where we are. But this picture just struck me, and I just can't help but playing with words, right? And so it just seemed so obvious to me, like polar bear, solar bear. And I thought, what happens if there was a bear who could actually glow and shine his light on all the problems that are affecting nature? And so it's like a call to action for kids, just to be aware that all our actions have consequences. And I think when I was writing it, you get that sense of inspiration, but you also get that sense of, wow, it's a big problem and I don't know how we're going to solve it. And you'll hear such great even the way that we're so into just solar, like so many people, solar cars and solar energy, and you're like, oh, we are making strides. But then you read about the number of even frogs just going extinct in the rain. It's heartbreaking. Anyway, it was my way of just calling attention to we should be bigger than ourselves. We are not just ourselves, we're our planet and all the other species that live here. So, yeah, it's sad, but hopefully inspiring.

[24:05] Dr Diane: Well, and I think we do have to start speaking up for the animals who can't speak up for themselves. I was just reading in the Times that an entire emperor penguin colony was wiped this year because they didn't have enough sea ice. And so none of the chicks survived. And they don't know yet whether that's a continuing thing or whether it was a blip and whether they'll be able to move into other colonies. But it's the kind of stuff we've got to pay attention to and amplify at both poles.

[24:39] Beth: And I remember when my kids were young, and I think 9/11 happened when my kids were very little and my husband and I had like, a big conversation, like, do we tell our four year old? Do we? Right. And that's the same thing. You want to protect them. And yes, maybe four is a little too young for something like a terrorist attack, but you want to protect your kids from the bad. But the truth is, how is that the environment and things that they have to grow up knowing that we're in a climate crisis and they can do things. And so that's where picture books sometimes are their first exposures to things in a gentle, beautiful way. That where you can start a conversation, even if they're in kindergarten or first grade. And so, yeah, I don't know. I hope it feels important to me because, again, I know there's so many books out there that do it, but for me, I had never done it, so I feel hopeful that it might make a difference.

[25:43] Dr Diane: I'm sure it will. One of the things that I've been talking to teachers about is you never know what that book is that's going to be the connection book for a kid. You present them with lots of books that are windows and mirrors and you don't know which book it is. So that's why it's so important to share a variety.

[26:01] Beth: I was just having a conversation with a first grade teacher who's a friend of mine, and she was like, oh, we were talking about my book. She's like, oh, my gosh, I haven't read your last. She's like, I don't have time to read to the kids in the day. And I was like, oh, right. I don't know anything about the curriculum and things, but it really was it was sad. I was like, oh, you don't even have like most picture books really are short. You can read them in less than ten minutes. And I thought, oh, wow, to not have time in your day to read a book, especially when you're in elementary school, it just seemed really sad to me.

[26:40] Dr Diane: Well, and it's counterintuitive to the research as well, because there's so much research out there that shows the benefits for kids of reading aloud, not just at home with their families, which is incredibly important, and I don't want to minimize that at all. But when you're reading aloud in the classroom, you are providing that vocabulary we talked about earlier. You're able to read words that maybe they wouldn't be able to read on their own, but they're able to start learning them. You're able to connect to content. You're able to build those connections across the curriculum, and it's really a good investment of ten minutes of your time.

[27:15] Beth: I totally agree. And you wonder, is this just her? Is it the whole school? I don't know enough. And I wasn't going to ask her, but it does make me wonder. And you think so many schools vary. Some schools do value it so much.

[27:31] Dr Diane: That they do it as a school, the one book.

[27:36] Beth: Right? Exactly. And it's such a gift. And as a writer, of course I value that. But you do you think, like, none of our kids are getting equal education. Every school can be doing I don't even know their school board, what their priorities are, or is it the principal?

[27:55] Dr Diane: Right? And then you've got curriculum stuff, and it's hard and it's challenging for teachers, and it certainly has not gotten easier. But if they can find the things that will bring joy back into the classroom I truly think reading aloud is one of those things.

[28:10] Beth: I do, too. I know. I do too. And there's so many schools that you do, they have the author visits because they know they know that that is meaningful to say. Like, yeah, this is written by a real person who can come and tell you why they love books, because you do write in a little bubble. You're home, you need quiet, let's be honest. Right. You're not like writing. You're thinking, and you're reading. Most every author I know reads their stuff aloud, so you need to be you're not reading in front of children. So when you get that chance, it's such a gift to. Read your book to kids and see how they react? I don't know. So, yeah, I love going and sharing because that's who you're writing for. Absolutely. Half the time. Not you don't ever get to do it, but you don't get to do it as much as you should be doing it.

[29:04] Dr Diane: So tell me a little bit about what you're working on right now.

[29:07] Beth: Right. So now I am working on a novel in verse, which is really my first novel. I mainly really do write picture books and some graphic novels, and it's a big challenge. But I also think as a writer, you do have to challenge yourself. Your genre doesn't have to be your genre. You can write in other genres. And so I'm writing a novel about a middle school. It should be middle schoolish. You're never really sure exactly till you're done. But it's really about being happy for others and sometimes how hard that is to be happy for someone else's achievement or success. And I feel like it's such the not obvious type of problem. It's something we don't really talk about. But when you notice someone's not happy for you or doesn't come to your event or your soccer game, and you think how you feel about just someone not supporting you. And so I'm enjoying the verse because it is a little like poetry, but not. And I'm also enjoying the idea of talk. Sometimes we do things without thinking about them. And until someone points it out to you, you're like, oh, I didn't even know I was doing that. And so I don't know, I just feel like this is an important part of growing up and the ability to be happy for someone else is a gift.

[30:35] Dr Diane: Absolutely.

[30:36] Beth: Yeah. So I'm working on it, and it's really a challenge because it's way out of my word count comfort zone.

[30:46] Dr Diane: Sounds exciting, though.

[30:48] Beth: Yeah, it's fun. I'm liking where it's going. So we'll see.

[30:54] Dr Diane: And what's currently bringing you joy?

[30:57] Beth: So, you know, September is my favorite time to go to the beach. It's almost September. Everyone will be gone because when you live, I can ride my bike to the beach. So I live like 15 minutes from the beach on a bike and five minutes in the car. But the traffic and so we don't go on weekends. Like Labor Day. We would never go. Now I'm in this thing of looking for seaglass. It's like this little bit of treasure. It's like going on a treasure hunt. You're just walking and there's shells and stones and then you'll see this beautiful piece of seaglass. So that is currently bringing me joy.

[31:36] Dr Diane: That's awesome. And then last question for today. What brings you hope for the future?

[31:43] Beth: I think our kids are so smart. I think that's the one thing that when I go to school visits and you'll be talking to a first grade and because I'm not a teacher and I'm not in schools and in classrooms all the time and they'll ask me questions or they'll know what alliteration is, and I think, like, yeah, we're going to be okay. Because they're so smart, they want to learn, then they do care. And if that can just like again, I think social media is the death of our society, but I'm hoping that that's going to be figured out and our kids are going to be like, none of my kids do it. They have outgrown it because they realize how damaging it is. And so I hope that even gives me hope that they figure it out on their own. And that's the only thing I think there's so much information and we're such a global society now and I think that gives me hope that our kids are going to be smarter than we are.

[32:43] Dr Diane: Gives me hope too. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the Adventures and Learning podcast. And everybody check out  Beth Ferry's books. They are wonderful. And you should definitely look for Christmassy Cactus and for Solar Bear, which will be coming out in March of next year.

[33:01] Beth: Awesome.

[33:02] Dr Diane: You've been listening to the Adventures in Learning podcast with your host, Dr. Diane. If you like what you're hearing, please subscribe, download and let us know what you think and please tell a friend. If you want the full show notes and the pictures, please go to drdianadventures.com. We look forward to you joining us on our next adventure.