Curiosity and Storytelling: MSNBC Audio Executive Producer Aisha Turner

Does the world have you baffled? Looking to spark your curiosity and make sense of what's going on? Join Dr. Diane for a very special year-end edition of the Adventures in Learning podcast with award-winning producer and writer Aisha Turner.
 
Aisha is a producer and writer from the Baltimore area. She is currently the Executive Producer on the NBC News/MSNBC podcast Into America.

Previously, Aisha was a producer with StoryCorps. She was also the first Race and Ethnicity Reporter for WUWM – Milwaukee Public Radio and had worked in the city as a radio producer on Precious Lives – an award-winning series about gun violence in Milwaukee.

Her work seeks to encourage empathy, create connection, and put events into context so that this world can seem a little less baffling.

[00:01] Introduction

[01:13]The Steve Spangler Connection

[02:51] Impact of Travel and Experiences

[06:46] Aisha's Journey in Media
- Highlights: Fellowship at PBS NewsHour, international experiences, and transition to audio storytelling.

[08:05] Role as Executive Producer at MSNBC Audio
- Overseeing podcasts, staffing, and editorial approaches.
- Main show: Into America with host Tremaine Lee.

[10:06] Qualities of Engaging Storytelling
- High-quality production, intimate storytelling, and challenging assumptions.
- Emphasizes the importance of empathy, connection, and putting events into context.

[11:01] Encouraging Empathy and Creating Connection
- Making world events less baffling.
- Acknowledging the impact of media on perceptions and policies.

[14:45] Uncovering Underreported Stories
- The need for more in-depth coverage of climate change's impact on marginalized communities.
- Focus on ongoing issues like food security and homelessness.

[18:20] Challenges in Media Today
- Speed, defining the audience, and resource constraints 
- Balancing nuance and thoroughness with quick turnaround times.

[19:53] Stories Aisha Would Like to See
- More in-depth coverage of climate change's impact on marginalized communities.
- Creative storytelling around ongoing issues like food security and homelessness.

[24:10] Notable Project: "Reconstructed"
- Explores historical events and connects them to contemporary issues.

[26:03] Influential Figures: Oprah and Nikole Hannah-Jones
- Aisha admires Oprah's openness, curiosity, and ability to cover a range of topics.
- Nikole Hannah-Jones is Aisha's current journalism crush for her masterful storytelling.

[27:46] Current Curiosities
- Learning about other cultures through travel.
- Exploring  international contexts and political systems.

[30:16] Sources of Joy
- Connecting with new people, reflecting, and taking on new challenges.
- Currently finds joy in her role at work and her continuous growth.

[30:51] New Year Adventures
- Plans to travel more and take more art classes.
- Expresses a desire to lean into creativity and the joy of being a creator.

Transcript

[00:01] Dr. Diane: Wonder, curiosity, connection. Where will your adventures take you? I'm Dr. Diane, and thank you for joining me on today's episode of Adventures in Learning. So welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Diane. And today we have the executive producer of MSNBC's Audio, Aisha Turner with us today. Welcome to the show, Aisha.

[00:28] Aisha: Thank you so much.

[00:29] Aisha: I'm excited to be here.

[00:31] Dr. Diane: So you and I met this summer in Colorado at Steve Spangler's science in the Rockies, and you were tagging after a pretty amazing woman at that conference. I wanted to do a quick shout out. She was one of my favorite people in my workshop, and I'm so glad she introduced us.

[00:50] Aisha: Yes, she's one of my favorites as well. She was really the whole reason I was out west this summer, and it was really fun to just be a part of the teacher community for the summer. Actually, that was my second time going to a Steve Spangler event with her. We had gone to the Alaska cruise last summer, and so we were excited to also do the Rockies one.

[01:13] Dr. Diane: Yeah, do.

[01:16] Aisha: Yeah, that's the next one. There's a lot of hiking in Iceland, though.

[01:20] Dr. Diane: I highly recommend it, though. I did Iceland earlier this summer, and it was absolutely incredible. Steve dared me to do the first podcast from inside a volcano, so I did.

[01:32] Aisha: Did you? Oh, wow.

[01:33] Dr. Diane: We actually recorded inside the volcano. It was pretty amazing.

[01:37] Aisha: Oh, my gosh.

[01:38] Aisha: I hope you got good sound, but even if you didn't, it's worth it.

[01:41] Dr. Diane: It was decent sound, and there's actually a video that went with it that's out on YouTube. But it was so much fun. I can't speak highly enough about the experience. It was definitely changed the way I look at the environment and look at the world and sort of the things we can do for climate action, how it got me thinking just in terms of what they're doing as a community. It made things like the glacial melt really visible. We were standing on a glacier and you can see an entire football stadium of what's melted in the last ten years. That's a powerful visual image, and it gets you starting to think about, what changes can I make at home? Who do I need to write to? How do I become more active in terms of speaking out on issues like that? So for me, it was things like that, the things that made what's really abstract very concrete. So I think trips like that, whether you can do them in person or somebody takes you along on them through a podcast or a blog or the visuals, I think those kinds of things make a huge difference.

[02:51] Aisha: That's amazing. Awesome.

[02:53] Dr. Diane: So let's talk about you. You're a storyteller. You're the executive producer of MSNBC audio. And I know you've been involved in storycore. You produced into America. You've been part of public radio. How did you become Aisha Turner, executive producer?

[03:15] Aisha: I sometimes feel like I fell into it. It sometimes still shocks me, honestly, but it actually makes so much sense. I always loved tv and media and storytelling growing up. Basically, I would go home every day and watch Oprah, and I would watch Oprah while I did my homework. And that's what was always on. And I remember I would know on snow days in like, it wasn't really about sleeping in for me. It was about like, I got to watch more of the Today show, was really excited about that. And I did the newspaper, the school newspaper, when I was in high school. But I always kind of did, like, the school newspaper in college, worked on the black student alliance magazine. I always sort of did it for, quote, unquote, fun and always thought like, oh, I'll be a lawyer or I'll work in politics or work in the nonprofit world. And then it really was like late in college when I was in a class where we were really studying the media's impact on the policy process, and I just found myself really interested in that and really excited about that course. And all of a sudden just occurred to me I could actually work in media. Like, oh, yeah, someone has to do this thing that I really love doing, and it doesn't have to just be an extracurricular. And so I started applying to internships and did an internship at the local, I think it was actually the local NBC affiliate in North Carolina and did that for a little bit and then just was always sort of like, how can I do more of this? I don't know. And when I graduated from school, I got a fellowship at the PBS NewsHour. And so that was sort of like, I would say, like my journalism school, in a way, was working there as a desk assistant because you got to move around departments every two months, and you got to work at the foreign affairs desk or you got to work in the tape unit, or you got to work on the news desk with breaking news and just get a sort of 360 view of how they put the show together. And I thought it was fun, just kept going. And I would have moments where I would kind of come in and out of journalism because I am someone that is curious about a lot of different things which I think is part for the course for journalists. And I spent some time abroad studying and doing fellowships in Europe. And then when I came back to the United States in 2016, heard about a job in Milwaukee that was specifically focused on radio production and doing podcasting and more narrative storytelling. And that, I think, really shaped a lot of how I approach my work today, because I'm still in audio, I'm still really interested in narrative work. I don't work in local news anymore, but I still sort of think about if I were in local, how would I feel accountable to a community? So, yeah, I think it was really just got here through a combination of just chasing what felt interesting and what felt exciting to me and tell us.

[06:46] Dr. Diane: What it is you do now. What is your job at MSNBC?

[06:52] Aisha: So my job now is basically to run the podcasts that come out and to kind of look at what staffing is needed, to look at what editorial approaches we want to take for different shows, to just make sure that we're on track to get stuff out. The main show that I work on is into America. It's a show about black politics and culture. And so we have a host for that show, Tremaine Lee, who will have a lot of ideas about topics he wants to cover. And so then I sort of take that and sort of think about, okay, how do we actually do it? What are the practical steps we need to put in place in order to make that come to life? And then I'm just overseeing each step of the process of producers and aps who are reaching out to possible guests and prepping interviews for him, or going through and editing scripts, working with the marketing department to make sure that we're buttoned up from that perspective as well, and just really trying to make sure everything gets out the door and looks really great and sounds really great as we do it.

[08:05] Dr. Diane: And from your position as an executive producer, what do you think are the qualities that make sort of the most engaging storytelling or the most engaging podcasts?

[08:20] Aisha: I would say both from my perspective as an executive producer, but more so just from my perspective as a listener. I love work that is beautifully done, that has a high quality of just really clean sound, and uses different interesting scoring to bring something to life. I love podcasts that are really rooted in intimate storytelling where people are sharing something that maybe they wouldn't in day to day life, but they're kind of working through a moment in their life that has been really pivotal to them. I love stories where people are willing to really share because I think some of the stuff that we're listening to is sometimes it's hard to talk about, and no one really owes you the chance to talk about it, but it's nice. Or, I mean, no one really owes you their story. Right. Right. People don't have to share, but when people want to share and are ready to, I think it's just so beautiful, and it's like, such a wonderful moment to kind of see someone else's journey and reflect on your own. And so I love that. I also love podcasts. That makes me think about a moment in time differently than maybe I would have. Sort of challenges your assumptions. I think that's just really powerful when it can really feel like sort of this, just like an intellectual play almost.

[10:06] Dr. Diane: That makes a lot of sense to me. And I think about that a lot in terms of how do we tell stories and how do we bring up issues in a way that it's not necessarily aggressive, it's not combative, it's human, and it allows you to feel a connection, to think about things in a way that maybe you didn't do it before. And I think that that also feeds into some really good storytelling.

[10:33] Aisha: Sure. Yeah.

[10:35] Dr. Diane: On your website, you had a phrase that I keep coming back to again and again. And it's talking about encouraging empathy, creating connection, and putting events into context so that the world feels less baffling. I think I'm paraphrasing a little bit, but it's such a haunting phrase when I think about it. How does that describe you? How does that describe the work that you do?

[11:01] Aisha: Well, thanks for. I'm glad that resonated so much. I think it ultimately describes what drives me, and it's something that. It's easy to get away from that sometimes.

[11:17] Aisha: Right.

[11:17] Aisha: Because you're like, okay, we have to put this thing out, and just, whatever sounds good, let's do it. And I think it's good for me. I like to kind of come back to, like, okay, when things get chaotic and when you're up against the deadline and you're trying to figure out the next project, just trying to figure out the why at the center of it. And so to me, I just see how much is influenced by misunderstandings of one another or just, like, a closed mindedness towards one another. And I don't mean it in, like, we have to all get along with people who are harmful. I really, really don't mean it in that way. But I do think it's important to just move with the world with a sense of compassion and a sense of grace. And I think that there is so much storytelling that doesn't do that, that really strips the nuance out of something. And to a certain extent, it's inevitable because a story has to just like, you got to get to the point, you only have so much time, right? But I think as much as we can, as storytellers, be thinking about, okay, how do we handle someone's story with care? Because so much negativity can come from not doing that. It really is like the driving force for me. And really, it probably goes back to what I was saying before of, I took that class on how media influences the policy process. I think it kind of goes back to that where it's like, okay, what kind of media is creating perceptions of black communities or immigrant communities or queer communities? And how is that then impacting the political policies that might be holding people back? And so wanting to just make sure that any work that I do or that I'm involved with is really constantly reflecting and challenging itself. And that also means, for me, too, reflecting and challenging myself, because we all have our blind spots and just wanting that to be a core part of my work and then that sense of connection and wanting things to feel less baffling. I think part of the reason people don't pay attention to the news a lot of times is because it can feel so overwhelming, or it just feels like we're sort of talking in a bubble. But if we're not all on the same page about the basic facts of what's going on or can have a shared analysis, it's really hard to get anything done, I would think. And so to me, it's just about just making sure that we're honoring where everyone is and we're not sort of operating with a sense of elitism as well, and just making sure that we're not discarding people as we try to kind of come to a shared understanding.

[14:45] Sponsor Ad:

[16:05] Dr. Diane: Thinking about building those connections and engaging audiences. If you could reach out and bring audiences into a shared connection, who would you want to target and why?

[16:21] Aisha: I guess there's like a few answers to that. One answer to that would be people who are generally apathetic or feel a sense of hopelessness. I think that a lot of people have not felt a sense of power and therefore feel like a little bit checked out. And I think that makes sense. But I also think.

[16:57] Aisha: It's sort of sad to me sometimes. That sense of apathy. Yeah, that sense of apathy and that sense of hopelessness, I think, can be really hard to overcome. And so I would say people who feel like there's no point, and in.

[17:26] Dr. Diane: The children's literature world, we talk a lot about books as windows and mirrors, that people need to see themselves reflected in the stories that are presented and see multiple versions of who they can be and the possibilities, but they also need the opportunity to see other cultures and other people reflected. And I wonder, as you're talking about apathy and hopelessness, if maybe part of that is from not feeling seen, that they don't feel that they're seen and connected to what is going on in the world around them.

[18:01] Aisha: And they don't feel like other people think they're important and then therefore maybe start to think that also.

[18:10] Dr. Diane: Yeah, definitely. Challenges. What are some of the biggest challenges of being a producer in media today?

[18:20] Aisha: I think speed is one thing, because you want to have nuance and because you want to make sure everything is just like as thorough as possible, but you also want to get things out really quickly. I think those things can pull on each other. I think also, honestly, trying to figure out who your audience is, too, and making sure that you're speaking in a way that is wide and inclusive, but also you're not just preaching to people that already agree with you and just really kind of constantly staying clear on that why question again. And then also just frankly, resources, everything is very tight. I think like a lot of other industries, it can be a tough time. And so you're trying to constantly fill the appetite for content, but also you can feel really stressed out and stressed.

[19:34] Dr. Diane: What are some issues or some stories that you feel maybe haven't gotten the attention that they need in the mainstream media, and maybe are the stories that you'd like to see podcasts and other storytellers take on?

[19:53] Aisha: Well, one is actually what we were talking about earlier around climate change and climate impact. I think it's certainly talked about, broadly speaking, and especially given the news about the summer being the hottest on record and all of that. But I think that I wish there was more analysis with other social issues that we're facing, like really more emphasis on how this climate chaos that we're in is particularly impacting marginalized communities, is overlapping with the ways in which pollution harms black communities so acutely, the ways in which it influences or is creating climate refugees. I would really love to see it focused on the actual impact on people who are already hurting because I think otherwise it feels too far off, it feels too heady. And I would really love to see it really tailored towards, like, no, it's not just about like, separate your glass into the right color container. People are dying. Right. And really hurting. And one of the stories we did on into America was about the heat crisis in prisons and how because there's a lack of air conditioning and there's these really close quarters, people are really having severe health outcomes. And so just like stories like that that make sure to kind of come back to the core of who's impacted. And then I would love to see more on. I guess it's sort of connected to issues like this, of issues around food security and homelessness and things that I think oftentimes we know are a problem. We sort of say, like, oh, it's not news anymore, because it's always a problem. Just like figuring out creative ways to tackle these ongoing, acute problems because it is easy to kind of just say, like, well, this is a matter of fact, and we just live with it. But trying to not treat the ongoing problems as if they don't matter anymore because they're quote unquote, old news.

[22:30] Dr. Diane: And that makes a lot of sense to me. And you said about building connection is really important. One of the things I was thinking about in terms of getting people to care about these issues is they've got to recognize the very real impact it's having on people and to see the day to day impacts of these things in a way that it's compelling and you build empathy and connection. And I think also finding a way to tell the stories of the people who are actually trying to do something about it. Because I think all too often we get caught in the, we can't do anything about it. It's too big an issue. It's been here forever, like you were saying, and we lose sight of the people who are trying to do something on a day to day basis, who are making small changes. It requires more work, I think, to find those stories, but I do think they're out there.

[23:29] Aisha: There's something called solutions journalism, where there's really that practice of trying to look at what's working or not in a sort of fluff kind of way, but really do a thorough analysis of what's going on and how this happened and what are the drawbacks and just trying to be more mindful there.

[23:52] Dr. Diane: So you mentioned Into America. I was going to ask. I loved the example you gave. Are there other stories that you all have covered, other episodes that stand out for you as being examples of the kind of journalism that you would like to see others embracing?

[24:10] Aisha: I mean, my favorite sort of series or project that we've done was called reconstructed. It was about the history of the Reconstruction era after the civil war.And it was this four part series looking at the Reconstruction era and this initial wave of freedom when people were released from being enslaved and trying to establish political power, trying to find land. And we then connected it to issues today. And I just really loved working on that. I loved being in the archives just to sort of learn about what things were like in that moment and especially as a moment that we don't always hear and learn about and then how those things parallel to where we're at now, because I think it was just a time to really kind of look at that when we talk about, in order to know your future, get to know your past and all those things, it really felt like a great example of that to me.

[25:17] Dr. Diane: Well, and it's a great series. And I was thinking that it's resources like that, especially as we've got people in power who are trying to silence, telling the truth about history, to be able to have stories like that that are being told, I think it's more important than ever, and especially as a resource for educators and families to be able to listen and learn.

[25:42] Aisha: Thank you.

[25:44] Dr. Diane: So you mentioned Oprah back at the beginning as being one of your first influences. How has Oprah continued to influence your work today? Are there other folks that you look up to as mentors or as people who have taught you what you know about the industry?

[26:03] Aisha: Well, so Oprah, part of the reason, like always think about her is she always just seemed to bring herself to the work and just really show up with genuine curiosity and openness. And it seemed to be able to cover a range of topics that maybe for some people would have felt taboo or hard to talk about. And she was able to do it with a real sense of what seemed like just open mindedness and empathy. And so that, I think has influenced what I do now quite a bit. I think my sort of current journalist crush has to be Nicole Hannah Jones. Even before she did 1619, I just loved her reporting around education and that ability to take history, bring it forward to today, put it in a context of personal storytelling, I just think is masterful. In any interview I listen to, I could just listen to her forever. And especially now that she has really blown up even more and become more of a force, I just really respect and value her voice in the world. And so she's my new Oprah.

[27:37] Dr. Diane: I agree. She's amazing. And so quick things you mentioned, curiosity. What are you most curious about today?

[27:46] Aisha: Oh, my gosh. Well, mostly right now I'm curious about the vacations that I'm going on. I'm going to Costa Rica in a little bit, so I'm like, oh my gosh. Learning about other cultures, really. And just like, really? I feel really eager to get back to traveling more and get back to. So much of my work recently has been focused on the US and news here. And there was like a phase in my life when I was really engaged in more in international affairs. And so that feels like where I'm just feeling a little bit of restlessness now, where I'm like, oh, wait. I feel like I need to get back to understanding other contexts and other ways of life and other political systems. I'm excited to be traveling more and just learn about different places in the world and how it all comes together.

[28:52] Dr. Diane: So Costa Rica's next. What else is on your bucket?

[28:58] Aisha: My. Well, my bucket list is long. South Africa is on it. Morocco is on it. Colombia is on it. Japan is on it. Yeah, pretty much everywhere.

[29:11] Dr. Diane: And what's the best book you've read?

[29:14] Aisha: Ooh. Okay. So it's like not academic at all. I'm forgetting the name of it. I'm seeing if it's nearby. I'm going to look it up to make sure I don't mess up the name. It's called you made a fool of death with your beauty.

[29:37] Dr. Diane: You made a death with your beauty. And what's that about?

[29:43] Aisha: It's about, like, love and grief. Ultimately, it's a novel. It's about someone who has lost someone really important to them and now is trying to figure out who they are in this era of grief and not quite wanting to let go, but also needing to move forward and just how difficult and messy that can be, but also how necessary it is.

[30:10] Dr. Diane: Excellent. What's something that brings you joy?

[30:16] Aisha: Well, this is bringing me joy right now. Just connecting with new people, having to reflect in interesting ways, I think taking on this new role at work and having a new challenge. Just trying to keep growing.

[30:41] Dr. Diane: And as we're approaching 2024 and you're looking ahead to the new year, what's one adventure that you hope to take?

[30:51] Aisha: I'm trying to line my travels up, and then what else do I. Oh, my gosh. I didn't even know. I want to do more art classes. And that's not like an adventure out in the world. I mean, it's an adventure, but I want to lean into that. I want to lean into being a creator as much as possible.

[31:20] Dr. Diane: And what does being a creator mean to you?

[31:24] Aisha: That's what I'm trying to figure out. Honestly, I think this summer I took a drawing class and I took a pottery class and I took a jewelry making class. And I think it means following my curiosity, trying to make something new out of original materials, trying to, just trying to kind of always go after and capture that spark that you kind of feel in elementary school art class of like, I haven't done this before. I haven't done it in a long time. And just have it be fun and playful.

[32:04] Dr. Diane: Well, I wish you a fun and playful new year. And thank you so much for being on the adventures and learning podcast. It has been such a joy to talk to you today. We'll share your information in the show notes so that people can follow your podcasts on MSNBC. Thank you for being with us, Aisha.

[32:22] Aisha: Thank you so much. This is so fun.