Giving Voice to Joy, Beauty, and Anxiety: Adventures with Award-Winning Author Hena Khan

In today's society, childhood anxiety is increasingly visible, as more young people and their families find themselves grappling with these silent battles. On this week's episode of the Adventures in Learning podcast, award-winning author Hena Khan discusses her latest book, Drawing Deena. 

In Drawing Deena, Hena addresses the subtle onset of anxiety that is often overlooked by adults. We talk about the necessity of proper support systems within schools and how cultural stigmas can prevent access to these vital resources. Her portrayal of Deena is not just about the internal turmoil of anxiety but also about the external factors such as family dynamics, creativity, and the unique challenges faced by children of immigrants.

One of the topics we explore is the impact of social media on today's youth. We talk about the intricacies of managing an online presence and the emotional toll it can take on us. Hena shares a poignant passage from Drawing Deena, depicting the character's surprise at the positive reception of her artwork online, highlighting the double-edged sword of social media validation.

One of the many things I love about Hena Khan is the way she centers Muslim characters in many genres, allowing them to be proud of their cultures and identities while experiencing relatable middle grade pressures and struggles. A sampling of her work includes  Amina's Voice, Amina's Song, More to the Story, Zara's Rules for Living Your Best Life, One Sun and Countless Stars, Zain's Super Friday, Crescent Moons and Pointed Minarets, Golden Domes and Silver Lanterns, Under My Hijab, Like the Moon Loves the Sky, and Unicorn Rescue Society: Secret of the Himalayas.  Her transition from picture books to middle-grade novels reflects the growth of her own children and the feedback from her readers.

In addition to Drawing Deena, Hena's upcoming projects are showcased, including Like a Boss, The Door is Open, We Are Big Time, and Behind My Doors: The Story of the World's Oldest Library. Hena shares her hopes and the inspiration she draws from young readers, highlighting their innate sense of fairness and potential to shape a better future. 

Transcript

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 0:01

Wonder Curiosity Connection. Where will your adventures take you? I'm Dr Diane, and thank you for joining me on today's episode of Adventures in Learning. Welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast. I'm your host, dr Diane, and today I am so excited to welcome Hena Khan to the program. She is an award-winning author. I fell in love with her, I realized many, many years ago through her picture books, but I also absolutely adore Amina's voice and Amina's song. I've used them when I've taught both middle grade and with my college students, and this new book that she has out right now is absolutely gorgeous. I can't wait for you to hear more about drawing Dina, and I want to also ask her, because she's got a really busy year coming up. We're going to talk a little bit about her new books that are coming out this year. So, hena, welcome to the show, hena Khan.

Hena Khan: 1:01

Thank you so much. Thank you for that lovely introduction. It's so nice to talk with you, dr Diane.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 1:06

D'Amico. Well, I am so glad you're here. Let's start with the brand new book. I have to tell you I gobbled up drawing Dina in about a day. I couldn't put it down and I found for me. As I was reading it, I thought of so many young girls who I know, who suffer from anxiety and suffer from. It's almost crippling for them and I thought Dina was such a refreshing character in terms of the voice and the struggles that she has going on. I wondered if you could talk a little bit about Dina as a character and what inspired you to write this book? Hena Khan.

Hena Khan: 1:42

Oh, thank you so much, so well.

Hena Khan: 1:44

Dina, she's sort of a combination of different people in my life, including me and other young people in my family who either have her artistic talent or have struggled with anxiety themselves.

Hena Khan: 1:57

But the idea was really the fact that for many children who are experiencing anxiety, like Dina, they don't know what it is and they may not think, or their family may not think, that they have any reason to be anxious, and so it can kind of sneak up in this very subtle way at first until it grows.

Hena Khan: 2:21

And that's what I wanted to share, like this journey of her dealing with these sort of uncomfortable symptoms, but it's not overwhelming her to the point where she can't function. She's really just going through her life but not feeling like it's something worth sharing until it gets to a point where she needs to. But I think that a lot of times we do confuse anxiety for other things in children, whether it's gastrointestinal or an allergy or just growing pains, and so that was something I wanted to explore too was the response of the people around her in very different roles in her life. But more than that, a story just about dealing with life and changes and interpersonal dynamics and family dynamics and this love for art and what it means to create art and to put yourself into the world in a vulnerable position. So all of that in one little book.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 3:15

You captured all of that and I was just thinking, as you were talking, about the response of the people around her. That was so well done, because we don't necessarily know how to respond to anxiety in a young person as adults. I found myself thinking this should be required reading for adults as well as for kids.

Hena Khan: 3:33

Oh, thank you, yeah, but, like I said, sometimes we think we can over look it very easily. Or mistaken for something else, we can very easily think you know. Well, you know, wait till you're my age, right, then you'll know what stress is like. You're a kid, you're 12, what do you have to worry about? And we never. Sometimes you don't even know what it is right. As the anxious person, you don't know what it is that might be causing that.

Hena Khan: 3:56

So to me that was important, as well as the other side of like the resources that are there for kids, especially in a public school setting. And Dina is a child of immigrants who, you know, haven't navigated the public school system, don't know exactly. You know what services are available and I think, for even for me, who did go to public school here, I was surprised to learn about how many things are available to kids through, you know, counseling all the way through school psychologists, to really support kids who are struggling with this and, especially since that's something that we know it's unfortunately afflicting more and more kids, that there are, there are many avenues for getting them the support they need.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 4:33

And the stigma, I think, is less than it was as well when you were a child Dina's age, or when I was a child Dina's age. You know, I think there are more resources and more people who are ready to support you, but if you don't know how to navigate the system, you don't know what to reach out and ask for, Right, right.

Hena Khan: 4:51

And unfortunately, like you know, the stigma is still real. Like you know, it is lessening, which is encouraging. But I think for many families it's this notion of you know, well, this is our private life, I mean, we don't need to know other people will manage it on our own. And and I know many people who feel like, well, if you have friends in a supportive, loving family, why do you need to talk to a therapist or why do you need to involve someone else? So you know, of course those things are not mutually exclusive and you can very much have a supportive community and lovely, lovely friends and family, but still need to learn how to, how to manage. You know something that's very real and manifests in very mysterious ways sometimes and can can very directly be affected by strategies and coping skills that you know friends and family can't always teach us.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 5:39

Absolutely. Now I understand you've got a selection from drawing, dina, that you're willing to share with us. Would you mind writing a little bit?

Hena Khan: 5:46

of a book. You're welcome to thank you. So this is, you know, as I mentioned, dina is an artist and she's also trying to help her mother struggling at home with business selling clothes. So she's decided to, you know, put create a social media account for Mom's business, which is called Zee's Threads. But she's also, you know, this young artist who's being encouraged to share her own work too, and this is after her her cousin has posted a cartoon that Dina has drawn of her, her cousin, prisa.

Hena Khan: 6:16

Prisa starts to swipe through her phone and then adds by the way, you're getting lots of likes. Who is, I ask you? I mean the drawing you made of me. Prisa hands me her phone. I grab the phone and take a look. Sure enough, there are lots of fire and heart emojis underneath the cartoon, along with comments like OMG, I love this, me too. I want one, make one for me. I'm surprised by how it makes my heart swell as I scroll through them. Are you okay with her posting that? Lucia whispers looking over my shoulder. Yeah, I whisper back. She asked me. And it's fine, you drew that. Can you make me one too? Lucia continues her voice at a normal volume. Now, of course, I say but it's a basic sketch. It's not that special Maybe for you, but I could never make anything like that and I want one. Lucia says Me too. Nisha adds I mean playing tennis, please.

Hena Khan: 7:07

Serving these sketches aren't more than doodles, but I'm touched that my friends want them. I can't help but wonder what it would feel like to have people react like that to an actual work of art that I made. Are you finally going to make an account of your own? Prisa asks as she watches me. I need to focus on the one for these threads and I need to get my mom some followers. Well, you need content. These photos are the right start.

Hena Khan: 7:31

Prisa says you should use hashtags and tag people and put up a bio and photos of your mom and yourself and photos of us. I interrupt. Listening to her is making my hand sweat and part of me wants to delete it all. It's like when she has all those opinions about my hair and my nails. I know she's trying to help by showing me five different products and giving me lots of instructions, but it gets overwhelming. Yeah, duh. Prisa scoffs.

Hena Khan: 7:57

It's called social media for a reason. It's about being social, is it though? Lucia asks, looking at me, but Prisa ignores her. Maybe I'll add that kind of thing later. I say, okay, but put up more stuff. You have to make it interesting and maybe some behind-the-scenes moments, like some cool shots at your store and videos of your hands drawing the logo or something like that. People love that kind of thing. Prisa explains. That's not a bad idea. People love cats, nisha says, and babies. You should add some cats and babies or like baby cats. They're called kittens. Genius, prisa says, which makes Lucia snort out the water she's drinking, and then we all laugh. I wish I felt as sure of myself as Prisa. Life would be so different.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 8:43

I love that and, as you were reading, it reminded me of another thread through the story, which is the whole notion of social media and whether it brings more good than ill, especially when we're in those early years. What drew you to add social media into the mix?

Hena Khan: 9:03

Honestly, the entire book, I will confess, is really dealing with things that I have been thinking about a lot in my life now as an adult, and it's so fun to be able to go back and reexamine life or examine life through the eyes of a young person. And for me, social media is so tricky. I have such a complicated relationship with it. All the things I think teens are dealing with we're dealing with as adults too, like how it affects the way we feel about ourselves, the reaction to likes, the reaction to comments, all of that and it was fun to explore that through the eyes of someone who's not supposed to be on social media yet. She gets permission to do it for the sake of her mom's business and then she's tempted to use it for herself. But she also sees the effects of her cousin's relationship with it and I like that.

Hena Khan: 9:58

She's young enough and new enough to it that she can be a critical observer, because she's not full into it yet, and I think we can all be like that until we're in the throes of ourselves. Let me quickly forget. And so she's very much at the beginning part where she's very observant of what and cognizant of every follow, every look, like what it means and how the comments make her feel, and I wanted to introduce that because I know it's something that a lot of young people at this age are starting to dabble into and it's a lot to navigate and makes us feel all sorts of things, good and bad. And then, of course, there's the marketing side, which, as a creative person and as a professional, I need to do, but it makes it really complicated.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 10:47

Yeah, no, it is a complicated thing and as you were reading that passage I was getting anxious as an adult realizing complicated relationship with social media. Because you're right, as a creator and as a business person, we need to use it. But then there's that personal side of it. Where is it healthy? Is it contributing to real relationships with people and where do you sort of take that step back? And I love the idea that Dina, as a beginner, can look a little more critically and maybe that will help other young people who are sort of just entering that world have a little more to navigate with.

Hena Khan: 11:22

Yeah, or who may find that they're in it but don't like the way it makes them feel, to maybe pause and think about it and maybe take steps to help themselves feel better about it. Because she's definitely in that new phase where she's still figuring it out and I think a lot of us are there and even after we've been in it, you know, sometimes it's going to take a step back and say what is this doing to me? So that was, that was some of the idea behind that.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 11:57

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Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 12:56

Check out Dr Diane's Adventures in Learning at wwwdrdianadventurescom. We hope to be in your school soon. I, just like I said, I loved this book and it felt to me almost like Dina could easily be a natural cousin and friend for Amina and the two prior books, like I could have seen them becoming friends at school. Oh, I love that. I could see that too, and so I was going to ask you write these beautiful heroines who are coming from an immigrant world or of immigrant parents. What's the inspiration behind these characters who are so relatable?

Hena Khan: 13:49

So I draw a lot from my own experience. I steal things out of my kids' lives but also the families I know and the kids I love around me. And in Dina's case I know a family a lot like hers, with hardworking immigrant parents who are really maybe struggling to make ends meet but doing everything they can to succeed in pushing their kids to do the same. And so Dina's mom was a really important character for me because of her homegrown business and I really wanted to focus on that mother-daughter relationship a bit in this book and initially intended it to be a bit more contentious than it is because I just couldn't the loyal daughter and me couldn't do it. But there is some tension there and maybe not at least in the first part of the book not a clear understanding.

Hena Khan: 14:40

I like that Dina throughout the book begins to appreciate everything her mom is and see her in a different way and, as an artist herself, to start to appreciate her mom's artistry and designing and making beautiful clothes and seeing the fact that sometimes the people who we think we know the best in the world, we might put them in a box or think they're incapable of changing like they're done. They're fully formed, especially elders, but they're capable of changing and evolution as much as we are. So that was important to me, this whole sense of the entire family, sort of growing together and figuring out life together, which of course happens in all families. But especially when there's immigrant parents, sometimes the kids, the kids, may have to advocate that for themselves a little bit more. They may have to help the parents, help them sometimes, because it's just the nature of them not being as familiar with the way things work here sometimes.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 15:43

Now one of the questions I like to ask people is to tell us a little bit about your adventures and learning, and yours in particular are really interesting to me, because so many authors sort of have a lane. They write middle grade or they write picture books or they write nonfiction, and you are so prolific. You cross over all of these different genres, different audiences. How did you get to that point?

Hena Khan: 16:09

Wow, thank you. Well, I think it might have something to do with the fact of how I started. So I started off as a writer for hire with Scholastic Continuities Department, where they used to have Book of the Month clubs that they would ship to kids.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 16:23

I remember those.

Hena Khan: 16:24

Yeah, they were so fun to work on. It was a variety of series and it forced me to think in different ways and accept the challenge of writing something I may know nothing about, like the International Space Station or whatever it was, and I think it made me think a lot about the reader on the other side and wanting to reach them. And so I had young kids when I first started actually, one young child when I wrote my first picture book, which was Night of the Moon. That came out in 2008. But I think as my son was growing, I started thinking more about middle grade and then Amina's voice came along, but some of it was reader driven.

Hena Khan: 17:05

Where they would parents would say something for my in between age child between picture book and middle grade, or me just wanting to push different, stretch different writing muscles and try new things. So I love to pick your path Adventure books as a kid. That's why I tried that. I know how much kids love graphic novels, so that's why I'm working on those now and hopefully just different ways to reach different readers and keep myself challenged too.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 17:32

Well, and you've had some really fun collaborations too. I'm thinking about, like the Unicorn Rescue Society with Adam Gidwitz, which is a totally different voice than you normally write in. It was a lot of fun to read as well.

Hena Khan: 17:45

Oh, thank you. And so fun to write. And I think that, going back to the series, and that it forced me to to find the voice of that particular product, so if it was joking and fun or if it was a series and academic and most of the warrants to a series, but it would change and so it was so fun to be a part of that series where the characters and the world building was already done, the voices were very strongly established, and then I had to just go in there and try to make Adam laugh. So we would pass the manuscript back and forth and write a few chapters each and that was my goal. I was like, how do I make this funny? How do I impress him? Because he's so hilarious. And I love that.

Hena Khan: 18:29

It was this adventure-filled story where you're not necessarily looking for a Muslim character but you get to meet these really interesting Muslim people in the mountainous area of Pakistan of all places. And I love that. It's not a book about identity or it's this adventure and these characters are just part of it. And I had a similar experience with Best Wishes Book 4 with Sarah Malinowski, which comes out this November. It's called Like a Boss and like writing with Adam. I mean, it was just such a joy to write this very funny, action-packed story and same thing going back and forth and just leaving it as much humor and absurdity as we could. It was just a great premise of a magic bracelet that grants a wish and doesn't necessarily realize where the wish will take her until it's too late. So a lot of unexpected happenings.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 19:34

Well, and I love the fact that you have, with the body of your work, you've managed to create Muslim characters and center them in every genre, but in a way that it provides a window and mirror for kids who may not have exposure to the religion or to the culture, while again providing mirrors for those who need to see themselves reflected back as well. I think that that's powerful, and it does so much to break down barriers in the classroom.

Hena Khan: 20:04

Oh, I hope so, and for me that was always my intended audience. I definitely thought of the classroom and the kid who maybe is represented and how they would feel, and I always wanted them to feel proud. That's always been my underlying goal that even though my characters may struggle with confidence or anxiety or wanting to make a team or whatever it is, their challenge is their identity and their race, their religion, their heritage. That is never their struggle. It's always something else and for me that comes from wanting that child to feel, like I said, feel proud of who they are and proud to be seen by their peers. Because, like you said, I think it's equally important for the mirror, for the child who hasn't been represented, but also for others to say, oh OK, you're just like me in these ways and your family is different from mine but also really similar to mine.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 21:07

Exactly, and it builds empathy and compassion, because the issues you're writing about are common middle grade issues.

Hena Khan: 21:16

Right and for me it's that's, and I think it's important to have books that deal with Islamophobia head on or bullying or things like that. But I feel like I want to write stories where kids also feel joy and connection in a different way, where, like you said, they just get to be the character and go on this adventure and have very relatable challenges that your peers can also have experienced.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 21:42

Well and that joy and connection leaps off the page. I was also thinking about more to the story, where you reimagined little women and I loved the way you brought it into sort of a contemporary life and centered different characters but showed that the story itself translates over the years. Oh, thank you.

Hena Khan: 22:03

You know, it's funny because that book came about because I adored little women as a kid. It was a book I read incessantly, to the point where my family was irritated by me. I too.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 22:14

And I could never decide which March sister. I was Like I would go through different things and I'd be Joe and then I'd be Beth. I generally avoided Amy, but now I really like.

Hena Khan: 22:23

Amy Me too, you know well a little fun. Fact is that this book drawing Dina originally I pitched as a companion to more to the story and Dina was supposed to be Elisa, my Amy character, and that's where the artist idea came from initially. And then when I was talking to my editor she was like what about a standalone? And we talked about the pros and cons of that and I decided to try. But then I had to go back and come up with this new family and then your premise for the story. But some of it I had already thought of in the context of the more to the story world.

Hena Khan: 22:57

But the reason I found that story I realized as an adult that the reason I found more to the story sorry little women so relatable might have had something to do with the fact that I had no representation in literature as a kid and I found something very comforting about this family set in like the mid-1800s and some other social norms were very familiar to me, more so than watching contemporary television where, oh, you can talk back to your parents Like that's not something I could ever ever do, or even some of the gender norms and some of the rules around dating and marriage and all that I was like yep, that's what it is now for me. So it was really fun to go back and sort of write what I consider a love letter to little women and pull some of my favorite themes and moments from that book into a new story.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 23:49

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Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 25:00

Beyond Ever After experience and you've got an incredibly busy year. You've got the door is open. Behind my door is the story of the world's oldest library and we are big time coming out. And you said there's at least one more Can you tell us a little bit about your new books this year.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 25:24

Talk about your new books this year.

Hena Khan: 25:26

Thank you. Well, yeah, it's really exciting because, like you mentioned earlier, they're all different, so different genres. I have an anthology, the Door is Open, which I edited, which features amazing South Asian writers. It's middle grade, it's all set in a community center and the stories are linked, where you get to meet characters from different stories as you continue to read and it all builds to a bigger story as well. So I love anthologies and I love short stories, but this one, I think, is extra special because they are connected in this way and just some of my favorite writers. So that was a pleasure and just a huge honor to work on and help create.

Hena Khan: 26:10

The picture book behind my doors is the story of the oldest library in Fez, morocco, which was a place I visited and a story that I always wanted to tell. And then my debut graphic novel is we Are Big Time, which comes out this summer, and that was a new type of writing for me, but a story I really, really wanted to tell, based on the true story of an all-head job wearing girls basketball team in Milwaukee, wisconsin, and it's this turnaround sports story with a little twist, unexpected twist, and it's a really fun way to explore sports and the way we sometimes are hard on ourselves in ways we don't need to be the power of a team. So many themes that are special to me and this very beautiful visual format, which the lines are incredible and the artist did an amazing job just bringing that to life. So that was like magic seeing that. And then the best wishes book was there that I just mentioned at the end of the year. So we'll be super busy over the next few months but hopefully very exciting too.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 27:22

Well, that's very exciting. I'm hoping for your readers. And if you were talking to students because I know you do a lot of school visits and somebody wanted to emulate the path that you followed, what would you tell them to do?

Hena Khan: 27:38

Well, in terms of writing, one thing I always tell kids is that I never believed myself and I didn't consider myself a writer. I had trouble calling myself a writer or an author, even after I had several books published. I had deep imposter syndrome and I think a lot of it really stems from that the belief that you can do it and hopefully meeting authors, seeing diverse authors helps kids realize that, even if they aren't the mainstream, that it's possible for them, but also the idea that anybody who wants to write can absolutely write. There's no test to take, there's no certificate you need or a special degree. You just have to start doing it and overcome that self-doubt and fear and just do it.

Hena Khan: 28:28

And I also tell kids about how I didn't feel comfortable sharing a lot of things about my life and what made me different when I was a kid. I kind of hid those things away and just wanted to blend in, like many of us do. And now those things are the things I highlight in all of my stories and it's nice to be able to celebrate the things about my background, my culture, my family and even some of the things that annoyed me when I was a kid. And I get to write now in a very sometimes like a funny way and change things. I didn't like to work out the way I would have hoped and things like that. So I really hope the kids will look to their own lives too and not shy away from what makes them different and maybe explore those things, because you know it better than anybody else and who else can write it but you?

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 29:16

Exactly, and so last question for today. I like to always finish with people with this question what brings you hope?

Hena Khan: 29:24

Oh, wow, you know, honestly, it's kids like so many of us and seeing how just how honest they are, how fair they are, how eager they are to write the things that we haven't gotten right yet in the world, I meet young readers who are so perceptive and pick up on things that I didn't even know were in my books or added a whole layer, and I'm like, oh yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, that's what I meant. I like totally didn't mean that and just questions from you know, I went to a school in DC that was, you know, one of the lowest resource schools I've been to, and the kids there just asked me the most powerful questions. And, you know, I think we have to give them the tools and they're going to fix this world because they just they're not jaded and they're open and, like I said, this inherent sense of fairness and justice. That just makes me hopeful, because sometimes those grownups we mess things up, but they'll fix it. I know it's a cliche answer to say, like the children have the future, but they really are.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 30:48

Absolutely Well, and you bring me hope as well. Your beautiful writing is definitely hopeful and joy filled. Hena Khan, thank you for coming on to the Adventures in Learning podcast this week. Folks go get Drawing Dina. It's out this month and it is such a beautiful book and I will drop links to your website in the show notes as well.

Hena Khan: 31:11

Thank you so much, such a pleasure to chat with you.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 31:26

You've been listening to the Adventures in Learning podcast with your host, dr Diane. If you like what you're hearing, please subscribe, download and let us know what you think, and please tell a friend. If you want the full show notes and the pictures, please go to DrDianeAdventurescom. We look forward to you joining us on our next adventure.