The Poetry of Growing Up: Alicia D Williams Talks Black Boyhood and Creativity in Mid-Air

Join us as we welcome back the remarkable Alicia D. Williams, who shares the journey of crafting her new book Mid-Air, a narrative that delves into the nuanced world of black boyhood and sensitivity. Listen in as we discuss the powerful character of Isaiah, a young boy whose tenderness and unique interests challenge the typical notions of masculinity. With Isaiah's story, Alicia brings to light themes of innocence, grief, and identity that are often overlooked in society's portrayal of black boys. Our conversation illuminates the rich emotional landscape of Alicia's writing, offering a passage from Mid-Air that is sure to resonate deeply with listeners.

In this episode, we also navigate the intricate dance of parental protectiveness in an increasingly complex world. From sharing personal anecdotes to discussing the professions of the characters in Mid-Air, we unpack the generational challenges our children face, such as early exposure to crises and the mental health impacts of social media. As we highlight the shift toward emotional openness between fathers and sons, our discussion underscores the essence of modern parenting: the endeavor to love and support our children as they navigate contemporary life. And for those touched by the power of words, we reveal how poetry is evolving into a playful, engaging form that promises to inspire young readers and future storytellers. Don't miss the chance to hear about Alicia's upcoming projects, including the eagerly anticipated Mid-Air,  which you can preorder now.

And if you want to know more about this incredible author, please check out our earlier conversation on the Adventures in Learning podcast.

(00:01) Exploring Boys' Sensitivity in Midair

Author Alicia D Williams discusses her book Mid-Air and its themes of black boyhood, identity, and grief.

(11:02) Navigating Parental Protectiveness and Vulnerability

Modern parenting involves balancing protection and preparation, generational struggles, and evolving father-son dynamics amidst contemporary complexities.

(26:20) Rediscovering Poetry and Creating Storytellers

Poetry's transformative power for young readers, accessibility in contemporary works, and writing as activism

Transcript

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 0:01

Wonder Curiosity Connection. Where will your adventures take you? I'm Dr Diane, and thank you for joining me on today's episode of Adventures in Learning. Welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast. I am so excited to welcome back Alicia D Williams to the show. Last year we talked about picture books and steam. This year, we're going to talk about her new book, which is coming out this month Midair. If you have not bought a copy of Midair, I want you to rush out right now, pause the podcast, pre-order the book and then come back and join us for this conversation, because it's that good. Alicia, welcome to the show.

Alicia D. Williams: 0:46

Thank you so much for having me back again.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 0:48

I am so happy to have you here. If people want to know more about you and the picture books, I'm going to tell them to go back to last year's conversation, because we're going to focus on all new stuff this year. Let's talk about Midair. Tell us about this beautiful book. What prompted the writing of it?

Alicia D. Williams: 1:09

There are two things that prompted the writing of it. One, at the success of Genesis Begins Again, I was afraid. I was struggling with fear. How do I do that? What did I even do? Can I do it again? People are going to expect the same thing.

Alicia D. Williams: 1:26

It took me a while to figure out how to write another book of that magnitude. Once I battled fear, I was able to prove to myself that, yes, I can write another book. That was one inspiration I had to prove to myself that I could write another book. The second was I was struggling so much with during the pandemic and the social justice arrest of 2020 and 2021, I was grappling with the world and how we don't view boys the same way as we view girls. We don't show them any grace. So I want to understand how come, with all these different events happening over and over again, how can we couldn't see little black boys as little black boys? Why do they have to be thugs or criminals first? So in that examination blossom midair and it actually tackled more than I was hoping for or expecting to tackle.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 2:35

Well, let's start with the idea of fear, because Isaiah, your central character, he's gripped by so much fear, in terms of the terrible things that happened that sort of lead him to having to confront society, but also just the fears of being an eighth grade boy who's trying to find his authentic self, to find a way to show himself in the world. Talk a little more about Isaiah. He is probably one of the most captivating characters I've read in years.

Alicia D. Williams: 3:06

But Isaiah is how can I say this? Because we like to categorize boys into this one big clump and we don't allow them to be different. So Isaiah is different and when you read a lot of the books, we kind of fall into a category of how they might sound, how they might act and their hobbies. And Isaiah debunks all of that. He is a black boy who is sensitive, and not just he's a black boy. He's a boy who's sensitive. He's a boy who's gentle, he's a boy who likes rock and roll, which is not necessarily a black genre. He's a boy who loves plant life.

Alicia D. Williams: 3:57

So I experienced with Isaiah this sensitive soul and I wanted to put him on the page expressing that. And because of the fear, we expect boys to all be tough, right, we expect them to do every stunt, we expect them to sometimes subscribe to the masculine toxicity and he doesn't. He doesn't. So that fear is genuine. How can a boy like Isaiah exist in a world where, if you paint your nails, which is nothing but a necessary, it's an attack on your masculinity, your gender identity, if you like to plant, there's something's wrong with you? So I want to explore that with Isaiah.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 4:52

And I thought that you also sort of carried that through to Drew as well, his best friend, at the start of the book. You know Drew could easily fall into so many stereotypes and he doesn't. He's also operating from a sense of trying to figure out who he is and how he fits in and sort of this pain, and they share a common loss but they approach it very differently, right.

Alicia D. Williams: 5:16

So you have these three boys best friends. The Darius is the first one. In Isaiah that friendship is solidified. And when tragedy happens and Darius is no longer in the picture and you are left with the other two best friends, drew and Isaiah, they both struggling with grief.

Alicia D. Williams: 5:34

But you're right, I figured that Drew, coming from a more urban setting into this suburban setting, one he has to adjust, but it parallels Isaiah, because Isaiah gives him a sense of calm, isaiah gives him a sense of peace, and Isaiah and Darius offer this innocence that he isn't able to have, you know, in his environment. He has to be tough. He is exposed to realistic events that happen in the world, where Isaiah is kept in a kind of bubble Right, and so he is able to just escape to Isaiah's world and just be a kid, whether it's using his imagination, watching anime movies or martial arts movies. He can just be. But he has to play this dual relationship of balancing how not to be such a kid and to be sensitive but to also be, you know, have the weight of the world on his shoulders. He has to take care of his brother who has sickle cell. He has to take care of his mom. He has all these responsibilities. So with Drew, you're right, he keeps this in. He handles it much differently than Isaiah.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 6:55

Yeah, and I loved the balance between the two boys. Do you have a passage you want to share before we move further into talking about the book?

Alicia D. Williams: 7:05

Yes, I want to share because, speaking on the sensitivity, one of the big parts of this book that I want to explore, not just why boys can't have to, why boys, not just why boys have to be tough. I want to explore why boys are not encouraged to be their full selves and to explore. But girls girls can be tough and they can be sweet and we encourage girls to have girl powers, to be a firefighter, do whatever. But boys, that is not what boys do. So I want to challenge that and so I want to read a little bit about that experience. Pause, mom and I fall back letting our bodies be swallowed up by recliners for our Sunday afternoon movie ritual. Last time it was my choice, spider-man, yeah, again. Today's hers. She sifts through at least 100 movies in her save list while ragging about my hair getting out of control. It's her to watch list as out of control. People think you're a thug. She says it's not that bad. I assure her Sighs think I'm going for a Bosque out. Look, she squints at me which one. I sneeze. Mom reminds me to take my allergy meds. I'm not a baby. I remind her You're my baby. She reminds me I'm burning to ask if dad's renewing his job, but she'll give me the. You've been listening to my conversations. Look, then it'll get serious. When I just want to chill, mom chooses the photograph.

Alicia D. Williams: 8:48

Five minutes in, I can tell it's not going to be funny. She paints her nails and says how cute the guy lead is. Says his hair is nice too. Mom, I grown Now. She's got me thinking about my hair and Drew's cut, which reminds me to ask her for parental permission for our mission. Then it's rules, sure, but what will you two be doing exactly? She holds up her hand admiring. Haven't figured that out, but we're working on it.

Alicia D. Williams: 9:16

Nice, I compliment her nails. The color is the deepest purple I've ever seen. Purple so deep it could have been siphoned from the galaxy. Purple, so purple. Prince would have written a song about it. Purple, so black, it looks like magic. The pudges slick on our nails like honey. I joke she could shoot sprockets from her fingertips. I already imagine the flames I shoot for mine Just as quick. Seven year old becomes crashing in and mom's heels stomping all over with. He gotta be tough enough, kay. Mom, I hesitate. You think it'd be weird if I tried polish? She pauses a paw so small I don't think she even realizes it? No, not at all. But was her paws the real answer? Lessons, mom was told me. She always wanted a girl to teach her to be brave, bold and fierce. That's what she told me. But God saw fit to take away one of my ex chromosomes. Turn it wide. Guess those lessons. Those lessons weren't meant for me.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 10:31

Wow, that really is powerful. And you know, as I'm listening, I'm realizing that the parents are also conflicted. You know, the parents are central to the story and they're beautifully written. I mean, I love the relationship that they have and the love that they carry for Isaiah, but clearly they're also struggling as how do we parent this sensitive boy? Where did you draw the inspiration for the parents?

Alicia D. Williams: 11:02

I drew a lot from me in the overprotectiveness I have for my daughter, but also the same protective-protectiveness that I have. So many other mothers are having that and so many other fathers are experiencing that too. How do we manage to keep our children innocent for as long as possible? As an educator, I saw that with parents Like I just want them to just not worry about what's going on in the world, just be a kid. That stuff can wait.

Alicia D. Williams: 11:35

So, balancing this idea of I want you to be a kid, but I also want to kind of prepare you that people will judge you how they see you, people will want to attack you because of these things. So it's a fine balance that we all have to walk the idea of protection versus putting what you need, the armor that you need to survive in this world, and trying to figure out what is the proper age group to prepare them to burst that bubble of protection. Yeah, that's one of the things. And because he is still protected, I wanted this family to be one of love as well as struggle. So mom is living her best life as a plant stylist, digging into plants but also styling people homes, and that's a rare career, right.

Alicia D. Williams: 12:35

And dad didn't make it into the book, but he's a Pulitzer Prize winning photojournalist and because dad's bubble has been burst a long time ago and he has taken so many pictures of death that his story parallels Isaiah's as well, so I needed them to know what it's like, because we do as parents, we know exactly what it's like. We just want to just oh, I just want you to be my baby for a little longer. I want you to just be my baby.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 13:19

Now that makes sense, and you and I had been talking about our own daughters before we got on this call, and they're about the same age, they're in that 24, 25 range, and I think that this generation has gone through so much From the moment they were babies. There's always been a crisis and it's hard not to want to put your arms around them and protect them and say it's going to be okay, even though we can't make that promise at this point that it's going to be okay.

Alicia D. Williams: 13:52

There is no way that we even know for ourselves that it's going to be okay. We watched the news and we know what's going on, not just in this world, but all over A few years ago it was during a pandemic, and you know that age group is definitely on TikTok, they're on social media and mental health was definitely destroyed for a lot and it's still being controlled and anxiety is the all time rate, as well as suicide rates. But I recall my daughter calling me at 3am and that's the only reason why I keep my phone on 3am. She had a full blown panic attack and I'm having to calm her down through the phone. You know, calm down, calm down. And she was like is there anywhere we can go and be safe? Is there anywhere in the world that we can be safe? And you want to say yes, but you know everywhere, everywhere, there's something. So you're right.

Alicia D. Williams: 14:53

And Isaiah and Drew and Darius, they have to face their world isn't always safe, their world isn't always safe. And how do we as parents and we know that if we could just protect them, if we could just hold on to them, even if they're a million miles away, if we could just be that parent? But we know we don't have that kind of control, right, we don't have that kind of power, and it's just, it keeps us in an anguish and it keeps them. We try to protect them of our own fears, right, exactly.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 15:26

Well and all we can do is prepare them the very best we possibly can and then be there to love them no matter what. And I don't want to spoil the book because you know it's so powerful, but I love the way that you sort of bring particularly dad and Isaiah full circle and there's just this beautiful moment you know you kind of allude to it in terms when you read the passage just now about there was that moment when dad said you've got to be tough, and then it has this gorgeous arc where they're both able to be vulnerable and to grow through that. And I thought that was rare and wonderful because you might see that more often in fiction in a mother-son relationship, and to see that with the father was truly special. It kind of gave me some hope.

Alicia D. Williams: 16:15

It does give me hope because those fathers exist. They do you always see. You could see and easily remember the ones who are always hard, the ones who you know stories as storytellers is easy to always stay there, because that's what we see. You know you can't have any weakness, you can't be feminine, you can't be this. I need you to be a man. There are those fathers who you'll occasionally see. They remind you yes, they're there. That says it's okay to show your emotions, it's okay to cry, you have feelings, it's okay. And I see that now more often. I saw a video of a teacher talking about his students saying you know he was crying. He was like hey, hey, toughen up. And his students said I'm allowed to have feelings. And it just clicked with him like oh, I've been perpetuating this and, yes, he's right to have feelings. So I wonder if we're having an awakening as well. That are young. That generation is a young generation Because they have been through so much. They're more in touch with their feelings where we weren't allowed to have any feelings right.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 17:37

No, I think you're 100 percent right about that, that I think they're more sensitive to their feelings and I do see not all men, but I'm seeing more men sort of be able to connect to and break through that programming. I mean, if I could see my 81-year-old father do that, I have faith that everybody can do that and I've seen him break through years and years of that kind of programming. You know the being the military officer and serving in Vietnam and just the layers upon layers of stuff and he's now one of the most sensitive guys I know and I'm like, okay, it's possible you know, I've seen it with my own husband and kind of the work he's done to be a better father to our girls and I think that it is possible. But I think this generation has it figured out so much more than we did. That is your right, You're right, which is hopeful, and I loved the fact.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 18:35

Also, you know I'm a North Carolina girl myself. So I do love the fact that you send Isaiah home to North Carolina at one time and I loved his aunt and uncle and I could just 100 percent put myself in that environment. I pictured a North Carolina summer and again, I love the diversity of experiences and relationships you brought into that, because it's a totally different socioeconomic community than what Isaiah is growing up in. But he finds a way to conquer his fears and to find a sense of who he is down there and I just I loved that contrast. What made you decide to shift him out of his suburban home and send him to North Carolina?

Alicia D. Williams: 19:20

Yeah, I was playing with parallels in this book and I think that was the biggest, the biggest thing. I wrote so in many other drafts. Dad was struggling with other things, like he being a photojournalist. He had seen so much and he needed it to get away. And I didn't want him to go away and mom be angry.

Alicia D. Williams: 19:50

I wanted to show how a family looks when they support each other as well as through their mental health issues. Dad needed to get away, so he took a job which will make a sacrifice for the family to hey, you're going to be without me. But he needed to get himself together and be in a different environment, to see the world from a different view. And that is a hard move to say. I need healing, so I need to take myself out and, like you say, reprogram myself.

Alicia D. Williams: 20:19

Drew does this too. He has to escape his home life and the realities of his world. He goes to Isaiah's house and Daris' house because he need peace, to think, to just be and to let things go Right. I played with that. And how would that look like for Isaiah? Where could he go? And it just made sense because you hear this throughout history that, oh, I sent my kids away for the summer and they come back a different kid. You're like, oh my gosh, you changed so much. You're taller, you're grown that being away from your mom and dad, who have sheltered you and kept you safe and reminded you to do all the things, like when you send them off to camp, don't forget to change your underwear, don't forget to brush your teeth, don't forget to put it on the other right. Yep, you're not there to do that. They have to become solely independent. They have to, even with an aunt and uncle who love them. It's not the same as a mom and dad.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 21:29

Yeah.

Alicia D. Williams: 21:30

So that, to me, was like that is exactly what he needs. He needs to find his own way with the love and support of family, but not someone who's going to remind them to do every single thing and point out his mistakes as well as what he did right. That is the genesis of the parallels and him becoming who he is and he'll from what he's gone through.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 21:54

Well, I thought it worked beautifully. Are you tired of same old, same old professional development experiences? Check out what recent workshop participants have to say about doing a workshop with Dr Diane's Adventures in Learning Great hands-on session that included real ideas to incorporate in the classroom. Wonderful Lots of great ideas and fun science experiments. It was great to be able to see how to make connections between the stories and science. If you are looking to raise your game and have a professional development experience that will leave your educators feeling rejuvenated and ready to directly apply ideas into their classrooms, reach out to Dr Diane's Adventures in Learning. We offer half-and-full-day workshops that examine ways to build connections between multicultural picture books and STEM steam experiences for gains across the curriculum. All programs can be tailored to your specific needs, so find out what audiences across the country have been experiencing. Check out Dr Diane's Adventures in Learning at wwwdrdianadventurescom. We hope to be in your school soon.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 23:15

And the other thing I was thinking as I was reading this you wrote this as a novel in verse and in my mind that is probably the single hardest way to write for middle grade. But when it works Kwame Alexander, jackie Woodson, jason Reynolds and you you make this an art form that you don't realize. You're reading poetry, you're just reading a good story, but boy, you get a lot of bang for your buck with the words. How did you go about sort of taking the story and putting it into such a beautiful form?

Alicia D. Williams: 23:52

I promise you, I am sitting here silently thanking you. So now that you gave me pause to speak, thank you. Thank you for seeing that. I was just thinking how I didn't grow up really reading poetry. It was intimidating, it was not accessible, the words and the imagery I couldn't relate to, and probably what they gave me or what I was exposed to was just too hard for my palate at the time.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 24:21

Yep.

Alicia D. Williams: 24:24

Had I had novels in verse, I probably would have grown to love not just poetry but to learn how to read and read and imagine at a more earlier age than later having to. So, coming to this book, I did not intend to write a novel in verse. I did not intend to write a novel in verse. I wrote it as prose, I put it out, but initially I had Isaiah become more quiet, he became inward, so he wasn't speaking a lot. You might see that a little bit in his second journey down south, but throughout he wasn't speaking. So I got off the computer and got a pad and a notebook I mean a notebook and a pencil and that's when it came out in a different form, like a cicada way of speaking, and the rhythm came out so differently and I thought what am I doing here? Is this, is this what I think it is? And, as I continue to commit to the process, it just flowed, not intentionally, I think. He dictated how his story need to be told and I am so grateful to whatever I have power that it works, because I think that was my biggest fear, because I did not grow up reading this genre.

Alicia D. Williams: 25:54

I know I studied this genre as an author, I pulled every book off the shelf Like what are the rules? I'm looking at blogs, I'm looking at craft. There are no rules, which is what makes it work. Ah, thank you. There are no rules, like how do you do dialogue, what are you doing? But I think it's just to hear. That is just mind blowing for me and affirming to me as a storyteller.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 26:20

Well, I loved it and I agree with you. I grew up on probably the same poetry you did. It was the let's overanalyze it and it became intimidating and I didn't love poetry. And even when I did my doctorate, my advisor pushed me to look at poetry with little kids and I'm thinking seriously, you're going to make me live with poetry. But I'm so glad she did, because what I discovered then was that young people love language and they love playing with language. And it's really, if you can have fun with it and you present it not in a A, b, c, d way, they're going to go with it. They love it when you're engaged, you know, when there's that emotional tug to it. And I think that what you're doing, and what other authors who are doing the novel and verse are doing, is you're making it so accessible at such a younger age and maybe you're unleashing a whole generation of poets for us for the coming years. Wouldn't that be great?

Alicia D. Williams: 27:20

We need more poets in our lives. I wonder if you were like me that I know we didn't have poetry, but what I did have back in a day cassette tapes and albums that gave me the lyrics and I would read the lyrics. Maybe that was that poetry. I did the same thing no, yes.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 27:43

You had the album covers and the CDs and the tapes where you'd open them up, and you had like the long index cards with the lyrics. That was our poetry. It was, but we didn't realize that and you know, everybody did that and we were experimenting with poetry. We just didn't realize it.

Alicia D. Williams: 28:01

Yeah, that was. If they gave me more of that, perhaps right. But now that we have it in a book, you're right, maybe we are creating a whole new generation of storytellers that can not only just who would have thought this would exist? It right, yeah, when we were that they can take it and make more of it and to flip it around, because they always change what we do and they can expand on the form. That would be exciting as well.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 28:28

Well, and what I love is seeing how that form has developed just in the last like 10, 15 years, and it truly crosses genres and that's what's exciting about it. So Bravo for having created something that's going to be, I think, another touchstone within that canon. I really think that middle grade teachers and readers everywhere are going to gravitate to this book.

Alicia D. Williams: 28:57

Oh don't scare me yet, but you know this is the most frightful thing because you, just when you're online, you know you're very vulnerable because everyone's posting their star reviews and you're like, oh my gosh, it didn't get a star. And I realized that People receive the book depending on their mood, depending on their history, depending on their beliefs and biases, and so I do know that every book is not for everyone, but it is my hope that this book is great in its way for those people who want to read it and that really hits them and triggers in them whatever they need and they hear and read whatever they need. To be there best selves, whether it's healing, whether it's inspiration, whether it's joy. I want that. That's my wish for the books.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 30:01

Oh, I love that. So I'm gonna shift for just the little last little bit we've got and I just wanted to ask. I see you've got Post-it notes on the wall behind you what are we working on now?

Alicia D. Williams: 30:17

You know you're very clever. I say you know it's so far back you can't see all of this. But yeah, I am on a roll now. I am on a roll For several years ago I started a story and it was dealing and I guess I'm one of those writers who would just deal with so much in my head, trying to understand it, things that are making me angry, things I wanna bring voice to, and I wonder if this is my way to be an activist, because I know that I am not the one to march in the street. I don't have that Proud, I can't do the crowds or whatever. So we all have a place and I want to be able to say this is what I did, this is my contribution.

Alicia D. Williams: 31:04

So I started out with a story that was dealing with gentrification and where are the people going that are being put out and I see it a lot here in Charlotte, north Carolina, sure and I was just trying to figure out what would that look like, and it morphed into something more. It started with basketball girl who played basketball and her community was changing and, oh my gosh, the hate you give came out and I was like, oh no, I can't have basketball because she's a basketball player, even though it could be more Right. What a basketball? I don't know what I was thinking. I just didn't want to be called a copycat, I guess, and I put the book away and this is way before Genesis came out and it just in the last few years. I picked it back up again and I thought I discovered, with everything that's going on, the history of our people in the swimming pools. So it is about a ragtag team of swimmers and a connection to the historical past of swimming and the prevention of swimming.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 32:15

Well, I can't wait to see that one, and we'll have you back on the podcast when your new book comes out, but in the meantime, I want everybody to run out and seriously pre-order midair. It's coming out later this month and it's such an amazing book. Alicia, thank you so much for joining us on the Adventures in Learning podcast today. It has been such a treat to catch up with you.

Alicia D. Williams: 32:37

Thank you so much for having me once again.

Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor: 32:41

You've been listening to the Adventures in Learning podcast with your host, Dr Diane. If you like what you're hearing, please subscribe, download and let us know what you think, and please tell a friend. If you want the full show notes and the pictures, please go to drdianadventurescom. We look forward to you joining us on our next adventure. We'll see you soon.