Spooktacular Book Birthday -- Meet Witch and Wombat Author/Illustrator Ashley Belote

On this spooktacular episode, we meet the very talented author/ illustrator Ashley Belote, whose STEMsational books include the brand new Witch and Wombat, Frankenslime, Valenslime, Listen Up, Louella, and Don't Wash Winston (available for pre-order now). We talk about the importance of read-alouds, of the joy of illustrations that leave you searching for clues and hidden gems, and how to create STEM/STEAM connections for all ages.

• [01:10] Ashley's Background and Adventures in Learning
  • Growing up in a publishing family
  • Lifelong love of art.
• [03:17] The Whole Book Approach
  • Impact of  Megan Dowd Lambert's "The Whole Book Approach" course.
  • Fostering curiosity and critical thinking through an interactive approach to sharing books.
• [05:09] Ashley's Approach to Illustration and Writing
  • Importance of details and visual storytelling
  • Readers Guides and building STEM/STEAM connections with Frankenslime and Valenslime
• [08:14] Witch and Wombat
  • Childhood inspiration and personal connection to characters and plot.
  • Adaptation and accepting change.
• [11:09] Read Aloud from Witch and Wombat
  • How to Order a Signed Copy from Main Street Books.
• [15:20] Ashley's Art Process
  • Character sketches.
  • How illustrations inspire writing.
  • Approach to character development and maintaining consistency.
• [19:28] Ashley's Experience Illustrating for Other Authors
  • Separation between authors and illustrators in traditional publishing, with examples from Frankenslime and Valenslime.
• [22:50] Social Emotional Learning and  Listen Up, Louella
  
  
• [26:22] Childhood Book Influences
  • Impact of the Pokey Little Puppy and Jolly Christmas Postman on her journey as an author and illustrator.
• [29:13] The Lifelong Educational Value of Books
  • How books shape individuals and create lifelong memories.

Transcript

[00:01] Dr Diane: Wonder, curiosity, connection. Where will your adventures take you? I'm Dr. Diane, and thank you for joining me on today's episode of Adventures in Learning. So, welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast. Today we have a spooktacular episode. We have the very talented author, illustrator Ashley Belote with us, and she has a brand new Witch and Wombat book out this month. And so we're going to be hearing about Frankenslime and Witch and Wombat, and we're just going to have a really good time. So, Ashley, welcome to the program.

[00:40] Ashley: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Diane. I am thrilled to be here and chat about all things kid lit. So thank you very much.

[00:47] Dr Diane: Well, and it's such a delight to have you in person. I had been using your books with STEM and STEAM activities for a while. Frankenslime really lent itself to what I was doing, and it was such a joy to get to meet you at a conference this spring and really get to connect, and I realized I really wanted you on the show. So I'm glad it worked out with the release of your new book.

[01:10] Ashley: Oh, me too. It's great to hear that Frankenslime and Valenslime have been good for your STEM programs because they are perfect for that type of learning. So that's excellent to hear. I'm glad they're being well received.

[01:23] Dr Diane: Well, and so we're going to start with the question I ask everybody. Tell us a little bit about your adventures in learning. How did you wind up as an author and illustrator?

[01:32] Ashley: So I'll give you the Reader's Digest version. It's a very long story. So I was kind of born into the business. My parents owned an independent publishing company when I was growing up, so my mom ended up taking over the company and still runs it today. So when I was about ten, I started being able to travel with her. So I grew up going to book conferences and trade shows and loved every minute of it. So, like I said, I'm kind of a product of the publishing business, so I always gravitated towards the picture books. Obviously, art is my number one love and passion. So all through school, I majored in art and worked on my craft, and I went to college and got a degree in fine art. And then my master's education included a children's literature and illustration course. Through Simmons College, they had a satellite program at the Eric Carle Museum of Picture Book Art in Amherst, Massachusetts.

[02:35] Dr Diane: Best museum in the world.

[02:37] Ashley: You are so right, and, like, I got to study there. It was absolutely enlightening. It was so inspirational, and I was surrounded by the best of the best all the time. So that's where I really made the decision that, okay, picture books is where my art style fits the best. It's what I am most passionate about, is drawing art for kids, specifically to make them laugh, humor is kind of my lane. So throughout all of that education, here I am and loving every minute of it. It's a true blessing and joy to be able to make money doing something that I love to do as a so.

[03:17] Dr Diane: Well, that's wonderful. And I want to talk a little bit more about the Eric Carle Museum, talk about that program. What did you learn? Who were you working with?

[03:26] Ashley: So my instructor was Megan Dowd Lambert. She is fantastic. She is also an author, and she has this program that she's developed called The Whole Book Approach. And that was the title of the course that I took. And it was about not just using a book as a form of entertainment for five to ten minutes. It was about really getting into the nitty gritty aspects and how much you can actually achieve with a book. And it was interactive. It is teaching kids to comment on the book, ask them questions, engage them in conversation, and it just takes it past entertainment into a world where they can develop ideas and thoughts for themselves and really use books as teaching tools, along with, of course, being a level of entertainment. So it was really neat to see that perspective because you don't typically hear about that. If you're not in this business, there's no reason that you should. But it was just a really unique way to look at, in my opinion, the whole world. And we need to be curious and we need to question things, and especially kids are always so curious and they have all of these great questions. So developing a program that kind of fosters their innate curiosity was really special to learn about and be a part of. And I use a lot of those techniques now, especially during story times and my school visits. So it was great for craft, but also for beyond once the book actually comes out. My first love is, of course, making books and illustration and writing. But then the best job perk ever is getting to share the books with audiences, in particular kids. So it was a great set up for my career.

[05:09] Dr Diane: Well, and for the families and educators who might be listening, I can 100% see the influence of that course in the teacher guides that you provide for your books as well, and they're all available for free online. And I think that's a really powerful part of using a book like Frankenslime is you've got some ideas laid out there for you. And I think that's a gift.

[05:33] Ashley: It really is. It's so special because there's so many hooks, typically in every book, and I love to explore every option. And with the Reader's Guide, in particular, the Frankenslime Reader's Guide, when that book came out, that was my debut picture book. I joined a debut group full of like, 20 additional authors and illustrators who were working on their first book release. And we all kind of learned together and we called ourselves Picture Book Playground and there were a group of those members who took on the task of developing Readers Guides. And I learned so much from them and from working with them. And I've taken that knowledge again, kind of going forward and applied it to my additional study guides and Readers Guides and activities for my books after that. So that was a huge part of that education as well.

[06:25] Dr Diane: Well, and the nice thing about a Reader's Guide is it gives you a place to start in terms of helping to create an authentic experience with a book. And then as an educator, you can take it in other directions as well. I know with Frankenslime and Valenslime, I actually connect it to a whole thing I do with kids with Energy sticks, and we're talking about building connections and how we're all interconnected. And Slime is a great way to explore that and play with that. And so it's just another layer you can add to a theme of building empathy and compassion.

[07:00] Ashley: It totally is, because that empathy and compassion is relevant to any part of life. It is relevant in every job, it is relevant in every classroom, it is relevant in every relationship. And being able to get that message across to kids in a way that doesn't sound teachery is really special and fun and in particular with Frankenslime like, yes, it is a 100% STEM book, but it's also a friendship story and learning to accept those who are different from yourself and not to judge, not to pun, but a book by its cover. So there's so many great things that I learned from working on that series. And I'll tell you, the first time I read that manuscript, I was like, this book was pretty much written for me to illustrate it. It was like the whole universe came together at the right moment and I was absolutely thrilled to get to work on such a special project.

[08:01] Dr Diane: So let's talk about your new book. Witch and Wombat is out this month and tell us about it, share about the book, what inspired it? What do you think is the most special part about it?

[08:14] Ashley: So this book is probably one of the more personal projects I've got the pleasure of working on. I'm the author and the illustrator, so it was a really unique experience, bridging from illustrating other people's words to illustrating my own words. And it was a lot of big picture thoughts, which was exciting. I could kind of change art based on changes in text and vice versa. So I was kind of in control of everything, which was really unique. I loved it and there's good things that I like about both avenues of work that I've done, illustrating for others and then illustrating my own work. So Witch and Wombatis somewhat autobiographical, and I will say so Witch and Wombat is kind of based on myself as a kid. I spent pretty much my entire childhood asking for a cat, but we couldn't have one because my mom was allergic. And it's really hard for a kid to understand know? It's like, I mean, sneezing is not that bad, so if you have to sneeze it's, you know? But I grew up in Tara Alta, West Virginia, and I was surrounded by wonderful outdoor spaces, and we had, fortunately, a lot of wild animals that I could see. I couldn't necessarily touch them, but they were kind of my pseudo pets, I guess. But I always drew cats, and my mom made me a cat print jumper that I wore as many times as I could during kindergarten. And I still love cats so much. So the story is about Wilma the witch, who is like, I was super excited to get a cat. There's some images that she has painted in preparation for her new feline sidekick. So she does all this wonderful prep work. She gets the room ready. She has a little area for the cat to sleep and play, and so she heads to the pet store after making all of her plans. And when she arrives, they're sold out of cats, so she has to have a wombat instead. So it is all about learning to adapt to a changing situation and learning that sometimes things don't turn out how you want them to. They can be even better. Like I said, the whole story is kind of loosely based on me, but the special thing that I got to do was in the art. So this is the back cover, and you can see here there's a little line drawing of a cat. That Wilma. That's the witch's name. That Wilma's drawing on this sign here. And this is actually a cat that I drew when I was about five that my mom had just kept in a bunch of kids stuff. So I scanned it in and then traced it over and was able to put that on the back right there. So there's a lot of little Ashley in here too.

[11:03] Dr Diane: Oh, that is so fun. So would you be willing to read a couple of pages to us?

[11:09] Ashley: I would absolutely love that. Okay, it is story time. So just for anybody watching, whenever you first open up a book, these are called the book's end papers, and they can give us a lot of clues as to what the book will be about. During my story times, I will ask the kids, like, what do you see here? And they can point out. And I'm actually getting ready to do one of my first events with this book tomorrow, so I'm really excited about that. So we have the end papers, and then we have the publisher page and the title page, and Wilma getting super excited for her feline friend. All right, Wilma the witch could not wait until tomorrow because tomorrow. She was finally getting her very own cat. She had planned it all out the flights, the potion brew sessions, the casting of spells. But when it was finally time to meet her perfect pet a wombat. We just ran out of cats. We have a wombat for you to enjoy. Everyone else brings cats to school. Cats have been friends to witches for centuries. What a cat catastrophe. You now have a wombat. They are just like cats, sort of. Okay. Wombats don't play with yarn. They prefer burrowing for fun. Wombats don't have a history of being lucky. Wombats produce cube shaped ****. They use those cubes as signposts to track their paths and mark their territory. Also, they don't use the litter box, so watch your step. Wombats are bigger than calves, so they can't hide behind you. And wombats have small tails, so they won't be grabbing onto any broomsticks. Maybe no one will notice.

[13:18] Dr Diane: What a fun story. And I hope that teachers and families will either go out and buy it from their local independent bookstore or check it out from the library, because it's a great one for Halloween.

[13:33] Ashley: Yes, and if anyone out there wants to order a signed copy, I have partnered with my local independent bookstore. It's called Main Street Books in Davidson, North Carolina. And so if you order from there, you can type in the comments that you want it signed. It's about ten minutes away from me, and I go there all the time, so I have quite a nice book collection because of this store.

[13:56] Dr Diane: Excellent. Yeah. You can see behind me that my book collection is a little out of control right now, too.

[14:02] Ashley: Yes, we are kindred spirits in this respect.

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[15:20] Dr Diane: So talk about your art process a little bit. When you go to do a book, what are the things that you bring to the process?

[15:40] Ashley: I bring a lot of trial and error. I feel like most of my life has revolved around trial and error, which I think is great because that is in my opinion, the best way to learn is by just trying things. I typically start with a character image in mind. I'm a visual learner. I see a lot of things in my head when I'm reading and like everybody does, but it's hard for me to really kind of communicate well without using visuals. A lot of the times when I'm working on creative projects so I have to see a character drawn out before I can write about them, which in Wombat's case, this book has been. I actually got this book idea back in 2013 when I was doing my program at the Eric Carle. So this book is close to me for multiple reasons, but it's also close to me because I've kind of developed myself along with this story idea. It started out as an adult witch and through my practicing of my craft and taking classes and learning, changed it to a kid. My agent helped a lot and it kind of evolved over time. But before I started writing anything, I got the idea witch and wombat. And I immediately drew out a witch and drew out a wombat. And now they are real. Now they can be written about, now they exist in the world. So I will always start with a character sketch. The character might change. Typically you go through again, lots of trial and error, lots of character model sheets where you draw your characters multiple ways, doing different things, using different expressions to get to know what they look like physically. Because one of the most important aspects of being an illustrator is keeping your character, what's called on model, which means it looks like the same little girl on every page or it looks like the same elephant on every page, so that kids can see that because kids are very visual and they've got to see that consistent kid. So I will practice the character and kind of get the character to where I want it and then I will start the writing process. Typically my writing is inspired by things that I want to draw the characters doing. So I really wanted to draw this wombat trying to ride on the back of a witch broom. And I really wanted to draw the wombat trying to perch on a cauldron. And so these kinds of things kind of helped me develop the story in the sense that, okay, so this witch has a wombat. That's not her first choice. So what's the story now? How did she get the wombat? What does she do after she gets the wombat? And then I'll draw a little bit more. Here's the image I was talking about of the wombat trying to perch on the cauldron. The wombat just doesn't get it. It's not a wombat's forte to be a sidekick for a witch. So I'll work back and forth. I will develop some story aspects, and then I'll typically get stuck at some point, like so many writers and illustrators do. So when I get stuck, I don't force anything because it won't be authentic or correct, and I'll just have to fix it later. So I will just kind of leave it be, go draw for a little bit, draw them doing something else, and then that typically kind of gets my brain refocused and I can solve my writing problem. So I definitely ping pong back and forth and develop the story when I'm author, illustrator develop the story along with the illustrations.

[19:17] Dr Diane: Very cool. And then when you're illustrating somebody else's work, you get the manuscript, and you have to sort of figure out how to bring those characters to life.

[19:27] Ashley: Right? Yeah. It's really a different type of process. It really is because they've done their part, and it's like handing off a baton. It's like, okay, this part's done. Now it's your turn. So it's a really special process to be a part of with somebody else as well.

[19:42] Dr Diane: And you don't often get to talk to the author in that case, right? It’s the editor who is the intermediary.

[19:48] Ashley: Yes, that is a common misconception, which, again, if you don't work in the publishing industry, there is absolutely no reason that you would know this, but when working in the large publishing houses, they do keep the author and the illustrator separate. So with Frankenslime here, the author of this book is the very talented and amazing Joy Keller. And she is fantastic. Her writing is perfect for illustration because she gives enough detail in the writing to make it an interesting read. But she leaves it open enough for an illustrator to come in and bring in some of their own concepts and ideas. So, yes, they spell out a lot of it for you, and they keep you separated because they don't want you to influence each other creatively one way or the other. They want you to just bring your authentic ideas. And then after about a couple of rounds of sketches, then they'll show the author the sketches if it's two separate people. So it's a really unique process. I come from the independent publishing world where I used to be hired directly by authors, where that was very much a collaboration type of process. So to make the shift of not talking to them was really, you know, I feel like I'm pretty easy to work with, so I work with myself just fine. So I don't know, just kind of doing it on my own or doing it with somebody else. But we did actually get to do a presentation together, Joy and I did. We got to do a little presentation. And it was so funny because we each told some behind the scenes stories that the other one didn't know. Yeah, it was great. Honestly, I feel like halfway through, we were just talking to each other. I was like, oh, my gosh, had no idea. So tell me. It was a great conversation.

[21:36] Dr Diane: I bet that was a fun panel to listen to.

[21:38] Ashley: It was a blast. We were rolling. She's really funny, so we had a great time.

[21:45] Dr Diane: Are there more Frankenslime books coming out?

[21:48] Ashley: As of right now, it is Frankenslime and Valenslime. And I'll tell you, with Valenslime, the sequel, this was my first time really working on a sequel to a book. So I had already developed the characters. But it was a manner of making the compositions inside be completely different in terms of their layouts than the first book because you wouldn't want anything to be repeated. And with Frankenslime and Valenslime, the whole story takes place in Victoria's house, so there's not a ton of scene changes, which is why I like to bring in what's called, like, the imagined. You know, we haven't left Victoria's house. This is the imagination realm of her slime experiment that we kind of get roped. So this again, this whole process of working with characters across two separate stories, again, fantastic learning experience.

[22:50] Dr Diane: That's wonderful. So, question for you. You also have a book that features an elephant as the main character? Because I have that elephant currently sitting on my suitcase.

[23:02] Ashley: Fantastic. Yes.

[23:04] Dr Diane: Can you tell us a little bit about Louella?

[23:07] Ashley: Yes, this is Listen Up, Louella. And this was actually my very first author illustrator picture book. And it came out with Macmillan last year. She just turned one back in June. So happy birthday.

[23:19] Dr Diane: Happy birthday.

[23:20] Ashley: Yes, she did really great. But this book is I grew a lot with this. I feel like I always grow in different ways with books, but this one in particular, it being the first picture book that I wrote and illustrated, it was really a fundamental learning experience. I got to be involved in font, you know, it's kind of all on you at that point. So this is about Louella, and she is heading to Roar Scout camp. And when she arrives, she is a little bit too excited, so she's not listening very well. So there's no taking turns or waiting in line or sharing. And because of this behavior, she misses out on an important invitation. So when that happens, she has to stop and learn that if you actually do stop and listen, then you and your friends can have a lot more fun together.

[24:20] Dr Diane: That's wonderful.

[24:22] Ashley: Yes. It was a special one to work on because there's so many animals. Oh, my gosh, there's so many animals in this story. And I love drawing animals and giving those types of characters unique personalities. So I spent a year drawing these little tigers and all these birds. I love drawing those little birds. They're hilarious. You can put so many jokes in with these animals. So it was really fun, too.

[24:47] Dr Diane: And a throwback to the pets you never got to have.

[24:50] Ashley: Yes, these are now my pets. I have finally achieved being a pet mom in my books.

[24:57] Dr Diane: I love that.

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[26:10] Dr Diane: Back as a child in the publishing industry, were there particular authors and illustrators who influenced you as a kid? Were there books that you remember? Were those books you connected to?

[26:22] Ashley: Yes. I was a huge fan of the Little Golden Books, in particular Pokey Little Puppy. I learned how to read using that book, and I actually really remember doing that. I would read it at home, pretend to read it at home, and I took it to school with me. It was my favorite book, and I still have my old copy from 1990, and it's in decent shape, but it's worn out like good books should be. But I learned to read on that book, and it was nice because it was so visual. Again, I'm definitely a visual learner, so I feel like picture books in particular with kids who are like that really help. I'm also a huge fan of the Jolly Christmas Postman. It is a fantastic book. It's Janet and Allan Ahlberg, I believe, is how you say, oh my gosh. The thing that I love most about those books is there are so many little details in the illustrations that you have to search for. And I knew as I was developing my art style, that I wanted to be that kind of illustrator and hide as many little details as possible so that kids will have to search and be like, oh, my gosh. I didn't see that the last time. So the heavy visuals and the little details really inspired me and informed my career.

[27:50] Dr Diane: Now I remember the Jolly Postman well. In fact, I do a lot of Beyond Ever After working with Fairy Tales, STEM, and Fractured Fairy Tales, and I loved that one as an educator because with the letters and everything else, it gave you a platform for writing, a platform for creative problem solving. And you're right, the visual details were just incredible.

[28:13] Ashley: They really are. And again, see, there's so many hooks with that book and you can get so much out of it. And I think, too, the fractured fairy tale aspect of it is so special. That was kind of ahead of its time, I think.

[28:28] Dr Diane: It really was.

[28:29] Ashley: Yeah. But they're still so loved today. And with the Christmas one, my mom bought it when I was about five, and it was probably like the most expensive book that we had purchased. It was pretty expensive for the time, so she bought it for Christmas and we read it together and loved it. And that's part of our current Christmas tradition still, is we always sit down on Christmas Eve and we read the Jolly Christmas Postman together. And it's like those you cannot get those types of experiences or memories from anything other than a book.

[29:03] Dr Diane: And you're talking about sort of that authentic connection and experience with a book that formed memories that you remember today.

[29:13] Ashley: They carry over for your entire life. A lot of times you can engage people in conversation and say, well, what was your favorite book? Majority of people are going to be able to tell you what it was. Absolute favorite. They'll have a reason. I loved the way the pages felt. I loved the size of it. I loved the story, I loved the picture. There's a variety of reasons why we love the books that we love, and it doesn't matter what the reason is. The point is that you love it and that's authentic and true to yourself. So it's very special.

[29:42] Dr Diane: Well, and often that first heart book is a book that either gave you a window to somebody else's experience, to the world, or it held up a mirror where you were able to see yourself reflected. Because I know for me, mine was Peter's Chair by Ezra Jack Keats. And to this day, I can visualize those images. And I know why the book was important to me. Because I was five and Peter was five, my parents decided to bring a sister into my life. Thank you, parents. I love her dearly now. But the same thing happened to Peter, and his father helped him get over the feelings of being displaced and of jealousy by helping repaint the chair and by making him feel important. And my dad, who was in the army, kind of did the same thing for me. And so there were all these similarities, and it wasn't until I was much, much older that I went, oh, wow, there were so many differences, too. But for me at the time, it was a mirror book and it sort of provided that heart support that I needed, and it was just a special book.

[30:47] Ashley: Oh, yeah. And they come to you at the perfect times. That was the perfect time for that book to come into your life. And it shaped part of who you are now. They really do have lifelong educational values and they help us grow as people, I think.

[31:03] Dr Diane: Well, and there's so much research out there right now that talks about the importance of the read aloud and why we should keep reading aloud to kids well past when they enter elementary school, that it's a chance to bond. It's a chance to share experiences that they might not otherwise seek out for themselves, a chance to build empathy and compassion, and it's a chance to build connections. Middle schoolers love read aloud too. And they like picture books.

[31:31] Ashley: Yes, they do. When I was in like fourth and fifth grade, I remember this so well. We used to have a reader come to our classroom every Wednesday. His name was Mr. Majerzak. And if anybody listening went to Tara Alta East Preston school, you know who I'm talking about. But he would come in and he would read chapter books to us, and we loved it. That was my favorite part of the week when I knew that he was going to come in and he had this great voice and he was so amazing, and he got us excited about storytelling and he himself was a storyteller and he was using other people's books. But it was the whole experience, the whole vibe in the room. Everybody is being totally entertained in their imaginations that we weren't seeing anything on a screen. So it was really special.

[32:21] Dr Diane: That's an incredible experience, and I hope more students get a chance to have that sort of experience.

[32:27] Ashley: Me too.

[32:27] Dr Diane: So what's next for you? What are you working on currently?

[32:30] Ashley: I'm working on so many great things. I love it. I just finished up working on two books earlier this year. One of them comes out in March. It is called Don't Wash Winston. And it is all about this little boy named Liam, and he has his best friend teddy bear named Winston, and he's afraid to put Winston into the washing machine for fear that it's an unknown space. What if he doesn't come? Is a we must face our fears and do things for the greater good type of story. And the one that I just finished, I turned in final art about a month ago, is called Sheepwrecked, and it is about pirate sheep who get stranded on a desert island.

[33:14] Dr Diane: That sounds really fun. And were you the author illustrator for it.

[33:17] Ashley: Both

[33:19] Dr Diane: That's incredible. How exciting. Well, what an exciting year for you.

[33:24] Ashley: Yes, it's been really busy and I hope it never stops.

[33:28] Dr Diane: So, last question for today. I like to finish with this. What currently brings you hope?

[33:36] Ashley: Kids. I think kids are obviously it is somewhat cliche. Kids are our future, but they provide so much hope because when you see them, they are so excited about everything that you tell them. Going into school visits, I talk a lot to K to about 2nd, 3rd grade students. And anytime I walk into the room and I start talking about this. They are so enthusiastic. And at the end of the presentation, I ask, who wants to be an author or an illustrator when they grow up? And every single hand comes up. And that, to me, is hope that the world is going to be okay, and we've got to foster kids passions for the arts. I meet so many people, adults in my adult life, and if I don't know them, we talk about, oh, what do you do? And I say, oh, I'm a children's book illustrator. And about half the time they'll say, I used to love to draw. Why did you stop? So if we can foster and encourage arts in the kids who express interest in it and they don't have to become professionals, they could just do it because they like it, and it can become a form of stress relief. It can just become a really nice hobby, or for some people, it could lead to a career. But I feel like it brings people so much joy. And the more joyous people we have, the more hope we have for the future.

[35:03] Dr Diane: I love that. And on that note, Ashley Belote, thank you so much for being on the Adventures in Learning podcast. I will include contact information in the show notes so that people can reach out to you, that they can purchase Witch and Wombat and get a signed copy from your independent bookstore. And I hope we have you on later next year when you have your new books out.

[35:23] Ashley: Oh, I would love it. Thank you so much for having me. This has been fantastic. I really appreciate it.

[35:29] Dr Diane: You've been listening to the Adventures in Learning podcast with your host, Dr. Diane. If you like what you're hearing, please subscribe, download and let us know what you think. And please tell a friend. If you want the full show notes and the pictures, please go to drdianadventures.com. We look forward to you joining us on our next adventure.