Unlocking Creativity: Jonathan Payne's Innovative Approach to STEAM Education

Unlocking Creativity: Jonathan Payne's Innovative Approach to STEAM Education

Show Notes:

Join Dr. Diane as we unlock the secrets of using hands-on STEAM to transform education in an energizing conversation with Jonathan Payne, Lackland ISD STEAM specialist and founder of The Innovative Mind Lab. How did an insurance salesman find his true calling as a passionate STEAM educator? What are some of his unique strategies for connecting with students and nurturing their individual interests through STEAM? 

"We're like gardeners. You have to have that mentality. You know you want to see fruit, but you know gardening is not microwaving a plate. You know it's something that takes time, care, patience, and a certain heart to do it and to do it well." 

Jonathan takes us on a journey through the exciting world of STEAM education. From robotic class pets that teach coding and biology to older students designing intricate Rube Goldberg machines, these projects offer more than just fun—they're critical in equipping the next generation with essential skills for the future. 

Learn about Jonathan's brainchild, The Innovative Mind Lab, a dedicated space for children to explore and grow through hands-on STEAM and storytelling. We take a deep dive into the power of storytelling as a vehicle for fostering an inclusive learning environment and for showing kids the power of STEAM. Plus Jonathan shares specific strategies for bringing powerful STEAM experiences to your learning environment.

And if that's not enough, we discover that Jonathan is also a musician. Check out the links to his educational STEAM songs and videos that are not only fun but also enrich the learning experience for kids. This episode is a testament to the joy of STEAM teaching and the limitless possibilities when education and creativity unite.

Chapters & Timestamps:

• From Insurance to STEAM Leader: Jonathan's Journey [01:08]
• Connecting with Students: The Gardener's Approach [03:04]
• Exploring STEAM Education: Projects and Skills [7:03]
• Unpacking STEAM [11:47]
• The Innovative Mind Lab: A Haven for Creative STEAM solving [14:27]
• Storytelling in STEAM: Inspiring Future Leaders [19:29]
• Honoring Every Personality through STEAM Education [23:36]
• Strategies for Bring STEAM into Your Classroom [30:54]
• The Joy of Teaching: STEAM Songs [32:12]

Links:

Follow Jonathan on Instagram and Facebook.

The Innovative Mind Lab

Chapters

• 1:08 From Insurance to STEAM Leader: Jonathan's Journey
• 3:04 Connecting with Students: The Gardener's Approach
• 7:03 Exploring STEAM Education: Projects and Skills
• 11:47 Unpacking STEAM
• 14:27 The Innovative Mind Lab: A Haven for Creative STEAM solving
• 19:29 Storytelling in STEAM: Inspiring Future Leaders
• 23:36 Honoring Every Personality through STEAM Education
• 30:54 Strategies for Bring STEAM into Your Classroom
• 32:12 The Joy of Teaching: STEAM Songs

Transcript

00:00 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
We're good. So welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast. Sometimes, when you are with a group of teachers, you meet somebody and you think this is somebody I want in my life. This person has the creativity and the vision and the skillset to really connect with kids, to connect STEM and STEAM and literacy, and you go this is somebody I want to be my new best friend. When I was at Steve Spangler Science in the Rockies this summer, I met Jonathan Payne and Jonathan is one of those people I immediately wanted to be my new best friend. 

00:39
And I'm so excited he's here on the show with us today. He is a pre-K through five STEAM specialist with the Lackland ISD schools in Texas, but he's also the founder and director of the Innovative Mind Lab, so we are going to have a really cool conversation about all things STEAM today. Welcome to the show, jonathan. 

00:59 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Thank you for having me, diane. I'm excited to be here and I want to be your best friend too. 

01:04 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, good, we'll consider it official as of today. 

01:07 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yes. 

01:08 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So, Jonathan, let's start by talking a little bit about your adventures in learning. How did you get to be where you are today, where you're bringing STEAM to kids from pre-K through kindergarten? How did that happen? 

01:21 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Well, it's kind of one of those things where you fall into your purpose. You know, you stumble into it. I was actually an insurance salesman before I became a teacher and just wasn't fulfilled. It was long hours, long nights. You know, the money was decent, I was doing okay, but my wife wasn't ever seeing me and I was like I needed to find something different. And she would always tell me you know, you have a way with kids. Kids are always drawn to you. You're always talking to kids and I was like you know what? I have a friend that was a teacher before me and he was talking it up. 

01:57
At the time I was pursuing a music career and so now I'm actually making learning songs, but back then I was making more songs. That was just more personal expression. So he was like you can tour in the summers and do teach in the and it's like that stability for your family. So that's why I started pursuing teaching and I completely fell in love with it. You know, know, um, I realized, like man, I think this is what I'm made to do. So started off at an inner city school district, 14 square miles, harlanddale and San Antonio. Um, you know, they served a lot of the homeless shelters, a lot of, um, just very impoverished, uh, population, a lot of just very impoverished population. But I was just getting results with the kids and most of all I was connecting with them, and then found this position at Latham ISD and I've been here ever since. 

02:58 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So yeah, very cool. So you know you just mentioned the words results and connecting. So you know you just mentioned the words results and connecting. 

03:04 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
And. 

03:04 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I know there are teachers out there who are going OK, what's the secret? So do you have a formula that you discovered over the years really works in terms of building those connections and how would you define results? 

03:20 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Well, results and connection, those are, yeah, two words that have a lot that you can unpack from. But I'll say connecting leads to results for sure. And the way I connect with kids is I like to treat them just like I treat everybody. You know, you find out who they are as an individual, what makes them tick. I'm always asking kids what's your favorite color, what's your favorite animal? And then I'll say, oh, so you like red horses, you know something like that, and just make them laugh. But it's those little interactions over time that form connection and just sharing from your own life. You know I'm a big kid at heart. You know I've watched a lot of the shows they watch, you know, and things like that. You find out who they are, you connect with them. 

04:11
And results, I just mean taking children that have struggles with learning, or even your GT kids. We call them GT or in Texas, I know there's different terms it's like gifted and talented, and you figure out how to make learning fun for them, how to inspire them. You know, once I found out education, like the Latin root word it comes from, it means educarte. I might not be pronouncing it right, but it means to call out, to guide, to bring forth. So that's really what I'm doing, like bringing out the best in a kid and figuring and helping them realize, like who they are, you are a meaningful individual, you have a purpose. There's things that you are good at, there's things that you are are built for, things that you are capable of, that make you special. So helping them discover that will produce results, and those are the results I'm really interested in. You know, did this kid develop? Was this child cultivated from the beginning of the year to the end of the year for their from their time with me? Um, can we see growth? 

05:29 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
right so and that's sort of that was my mindset as well. I came from an early childhood, early elementary background and for me, so much of results was that exponential growth you saw in child over the course of the year. And can you help them see the growth? Can you help their families see the growth? Yeah, and sort of help them be able to recognize you've got this in you and you've got whatever the seed is that they're planting and to know that you know that growth in your year might lead to something totally different and magical in somebody else's year, but you've done what you could in the time you have. 

06:08 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yeah, we're like gardeners. You have to have that mentality. You know you want to see fruit, but you know gardening is not microwaving a plate. You know it's something that takes time, care, patience, and you know it takes a certain heart to do it and to do it well. 

06:27 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And some kids will sprout immediately and others are kind of like an almond tree where it takes years. 

06:33 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yep, I couldn't have said it better myself. That's so true. So, yeah, I love the job. I'm in it for life and that's why I said it wasn't anything I set out to do, you know. You know, I kind of come from a rough background myself, so I didn't have a lot of guidance, but I'm just thankful that I was able to find something that I can be passionate about and actually make a difference in the world. 

07:03 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, and I want to unpack both sides of what you do, but let's start with in the school district. Yes, you're fulfilling a role that more and more school districts are sort of starting to bring in, the idea of the STEM or STEAM specialist. What does that look like? Like what would you describe as sort of a typical week in that job? What are some of the things that you do? 

07:23 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Oh, it's fun, it is an adventure. So at my district basically I see every kid once a week. So I'm and we actually did do a schedule revamp. So last I'll speak about last year. Last year I would see pre-K through fifth grade every single day, and then another set of pre-K through fifth grade and then another all the way from Monday through Friday. So I'm had 33 classes throughout the week and so they would see me once a week and I was in the same rotation with the art teacher, the music teacher. So then this year now they just changed the schedule a little bit to where now I'm going to see just one grade, so all the fifth graders on Friday and all the fourth graders on Thursday, so on and so forth. So yeah, I see them for 40 minutes each class and we do project based learning class and we do project-based learning. So essentially we found a company that we work with, teq or tech, and they basically have these correct, this curriculum called I blocks. But really I'm pulling from multiple resources and what I love about my district is they really give you the freedom to do what works for the kids and use your professional you know best judgment, you know make sure you're hitting those teaks, of course you know, but they let they really let me do what I do and so, yeah, we're having a blast like this. 

09:04
Last year we did class pets. So my K through two they made class pets out of robots, so they're learning about science and the biology, animal characteristics, and then they're getting their technology by learning the robots how to code and they're putting on a pet show at the end of the year and so they just, we just chunk it 40 minutes at a time. And my upper grades did Rube Goldberg machines. So learning and studying engineering design process. So who was Rube Goldberg? Why are his machines important? How do they? How do those concepts impact us in the real world today? So by the end of it, they're creating these complex chain reaction machines. Those are always fun, yes. 

09:58 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I assume you've seen there's a kid's series of books called Rube Goldberg. 

10:05 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
I might not have seen that You're going to have to show me. 

10:07 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I'll make sure I show them to you and I'll drop a link to them as well. Yeah, there's a picture book series and you've got sort of a child version of Rube Goldberg trying to solve problems throughout their day. 

10:17 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
That sounds amazing. 

10:18 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
They're really fun. So I'll make sure I share that with you because, yeah, it's just a cool way to add that literacy link in as well. But that sounds really cool. So it sounds to me like you're going to be able to really, in your day, focus in if you're doing one grade per day, versus trying to change things up all day long. Yes that could be a really good opportunity this year. 

10:43 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to it. We're doing two new projects, so that's going to be a professional challenge, you know. So we actually have some curriculum designing going on. We call it a YAG it stands for a year at a glance. So we're getting the big picture overview of which tools are we going to use. We have so many different robots. We have the 3D printer that you heard going on in the background, and so we're going to be doing tiny houses, so they're going to be building little houses and hopefully 3D printing different furniture pieces. We have pin doodlers, where they can actually use a pin to, you know, 3d build something like right there at their desk. And for the younger grades, we're going to be doing specialty trucks, so they're going to be designing different trucks for out of different robots that we have. So, yeah, we have about six or seven different robots that the kids can choose from. 

11:44 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So that's, incredible. 

11:46 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yeah. 

11:47 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And you know what? Let's go ahead and define what we think STEAM is too. 

11:52 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Okay. 

11:53 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Because I know you could ask a hundred different teachers and you might get a hundred different answers. I mean, everybody will tell you science, technology, engineering, arts and mathematics. But let's go beyond that. What? 

12:08 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
does that mean to you? Well, I picked STEAM because you know my educational philosophy. You know I spent some time thinking through that and it really comes down to bringing kids as much as possible into things that really matter, into the real real world, helping them become a part of society in a way that's appropriate and engaging and fun and stimulating. Like you see it, with kids right, like you put a, a doll and you put pots and pans, you know they're gonna want the thing that they see mom and dad doing or they see the adults doing. So for me, steam represents that. It represents bringing kids into the real world and in teaching them how to play and teaching them how to engage with their environment in a way that is not just fun but also, hey, it really does something in real life and it has a real world impact. 

13:07
You know we've seen different iterations of it, like project-based learning, but it really is that. It's project-based learning that focuses on those core subjects science, technology, engineering, art, math that takes real world problems and teaches kids how to solve them and, hey, shows them it's fun, shows them that it's a good time, like you can go home and figure out, like my little brother I remember when he was growing up he figured out how to turn his light on and off from the bed and we all thought he was so cool and this was before scene was a thing. But he had it stringed up and it was like all wired all around and so his bunk bed was way over across the room from the light switch and he could just be in bed and be like that's brilliant. 

13:54
That's steam solving yeah. And we all had a blast watching them do it. And so it's teaching more kids how to do what he did. Naturally, because he's like that now and now he makes cars and he does all sorts of cool stuff and he's one of those car guys, those cool car guys but that's a kid that was like wow, he did something. Naturally that's how he had fun, but that can be taught and that's what I want to do. 

14:21 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Very cool, and so the Innovative Mind Lab. Where did that come from and what does it do? 

14:27 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
So the Innovative Mind Lab is just a place where kids can come and learn. I mean, really, the vision started with wanting to serve a certain population. Sometimes you have the what, sometimes you have the who, sometimes you know you should always have the why. So the why and the what was already there. I'm a STEAM professional, you know. I love educating, but my kids are actually homeschooled. So I'm a public school teacher who homeschools, you know, and something my wife wanted to do and she's gifted to do, and I have six children. I think I put up the right numbers, you know. You see yourself, we're not seven. I promise. 

15:16
So, so, being around the homeschool world, I was like you know what I, these kids need, what I do, you know I walk into the homeschool world. I was like you know what I, these kids need, what I do, you know I walk into the homeschool spaces and that's what the parents will tell you. They'll say we're really needing help with STEAM, we're really needing help with, you know, the science, the math, the technology. And so I was like, hey, I think this is a place where I can serve, and it has proven to be true. 

15:44
We hit our, our cap this past summer. It is only our second summer, and so now I'm having the great problem of figuring out how to scale and service more kids in the next go around, in the next go around. But yeah, we had a blast. You know I'm going to be putting up some pictures and recaps of what we did on my website, the innovative mind labcom. But yeah, so that's kind of where it came from. It's like wanting to serve a certain population with my skill set that was underserved in that way, at least in my city. 

16:19 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And what kind of summer camp programs or what kind of programs did? 

16:23 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
you offer. So we did half-day camps this year. So we put on six half-day camps and each camp was like a standalone experience. So one of them they were building. So the first three in June they had had to do with electricity, so I was teaching them circuitry and but um, again, project based, and um. So the first day they made um some light up greeting cards. So they had to, you know, figure out how the circuits work, how to open and close circuits, they're saying, instead of turn on the lights, they're saying can you, um, close the circuit? Can you, uh, open the circuit? And they're telling their family and friends, you know, like steve taught us, you know, if it makes it home to the kitchen table, then you want something right, yep done something right. 

17:14
So they, they do things like that. They did light up greeting cards all the way from um. You know, in july our big shebang was water bottle rockets, so it was about rocket science. So we're going to become rocket scientists and we're going to learn about aerodynamics and air pressure and, you know, centripetal force. I was actually able to use some of the things I learned at Science in the Rockies in my July camps they're right after Rockies Signs and the Rockies in my July camps they're right after. So they love the potato gun. So I know we actually saw you. You know you're on our convocation. Your beautiful smile was just right there, because that video you took of my group I don't even know if you remember, oh yeah, and they played that clip at our convocation and so that was awesome. But yeah and I'll. 

18:10
We've been storytelling because I'm a storyteller at heart too, that's. You know I was being, I was a band nerd, Then I was a rapper, Then I was. You know, I still write songs and so, and at the core of all that, even education. Being a teacher, someone would say all we're doing is telling stories. Right, Telling stories. Why does this matter? Why is this important? Where did this come from? So? So we've been storytelling, so that was something new. 

18:35
This year I made up two characters called Sally Rockets and Skylar I'm spacing on his last name. Anyway, they're going to be coming out. Those characters were my son and my daughter, and they would. They were helpers, but then they would have to go to the bathroom or something and then, all of a sudden, Skylar and Sally would appear and create a scenario or a question. And your session, Dr Diane, was instrumental in me getting that aha moment to weave storytelling throughout the whole. So you're you. You guys really had a real world impact down here in San Antonio and all those kids lives because, um, you guys helped me do my what I do better. 

19:29 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So, that makes me so happy and I have to tell, tell you, the storytelling thing is key and I'm realizing that on so many levels. You know, there's the regular storytelling, like when you get kids engaged and involved in helping you tell the three little pigs before you launch into all of the stem steam based connections that you're making. Yes, I'm also finding that there are so many stories that we weren't taught in school or we weren't told about in school that we're making. But I'm also finding that there are so many stories that we weren't taught in school or we weren't told about in school that we're only just learning Stories about the scientists and the history of the science, the things that were left out of our textbooks. 

20:06
And so I find that by learning those stories and being able to share them along the lines of while we're doing things, that's powerful and it sort of gives kids as you were saying earlier about part of stem, and steam is inviting kids into that world and into that space and showing them that they belong there. 

20:25
Sharing the stories of the people who went before them is also part of that, and when you can bring those real world connections in, I think that's a powerful component of storytelling as well. Stories of the people who went before them is also part of that, and when you can bring those real world connections in, I think that's a powerful component of storytelling as well, how did you come across that? 

20:40 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
I know you're interviewing me, but I'm curious how you realized storytelling was so integral to what you were going to be doing. 

20:49 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So I have been doing sort of that. I did formal education for years and then I was a museum educator. And what I found is, as a museum educator, I got kids for anywhere from 15 minutes to 45 minutes, so my job was the aha moments and it was finding those things that would spark, and then I'd hand them back to you. 

21:11
Your job was to take them further, but I was supposed to get them excited, and I'm like a kid myself and I want to learn and I'm always curious, and so I started stumbling across some of these stories and I'm like, oh, that's a good story and I would do more research. I'm like, oh, that's a really interesting story, and so I'd start bringing them into the things I was teaching. So, talking about weather, I'd start introducing them to Archie Williams, who was the first African-American meteorologist. 

21:40 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yeah. 

21:41 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And I didn't know his story until I stumbled on it. I discovered this woman, Nina Draws Scientists, and I found her on Instagram. 

21:50
And I found her on the podcast back in the early days, but she would do these incredible things on Instagram where she would highlight women scientists and women engineers and they were global women from all over the world, different cultures, different stories and I loved what she did and so I'm like, ok, I could work in the story of this person, into this content, and so I started looking for those stories, and so now that sort of has become something I'm naturally doing, and what I do is I always want to match some kind of real world person or experience to what we're doing, because I think that that's giving kids that idea that there's more, and there was also for me. 

22:32
I don't know if you've ever seen the graphic, but with Windows and Mirrors, dr Rudine Sims Bishop's work there's a graphic that shows sort of what's been published in children's literature and it was showing the possibilities, and so the last one I had seen was 2019. And you had the Native American child at one end of the spectrum, where maybe one percent of the books that were out featured a Native American child, and of those, most of them are showing them in a historical context, not showing them in a modern day yeah experience. 

23:08
So that's really limiting in terms of how they are able to see themselves fitting into that world. And then you go all the way to the other end, where you've got the white child who is centered and sees you know, I can be a rocket, rocket scientist, I can be a king, I can be yeah, I can be at that, and that's inequity yeah so how do we build in the stories to really show the possibilities that maybe are lacking? 

23:36 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yeah, representation for sure matters. My cousin was just she's educator as well and she works in a district here in San Antonio as a math facilitator. But she was just talking about how impactful the Olympics were. You know to her and to see you know people that looked like her with brown skin. You know um competing in sports. You know beyond just you know basketball and um the traditional. You know where you'll see African-Americans you know primarily competing and she was talking about she wrote this really beautiful you know just Facebook post about how it mattered to her and I'm like wow, that's really good. 

24:21 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It matters, it really does, and it matters for all of us. 

24:25 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yeah. 

24:26 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It's one of those things that I think helps to break down barriers when we start recognizing these beautiful stories. 

24:33 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yeah. 

24:34 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So I feel like STEM and STEAM can do that too. 

24:37 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yes, they need to. I mean, you know we do ourselves a disservice, you know. You know the whole right brain, left brain framework. You know, if you don't teach to the whole child, you know, then you know you're not, you're doing them a disservice, you know. So it's like okay, we want to cultivate that left side, that left brain. Well, don't forget to use the right brain to do that, you know. 

25:03 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And you know we also. I think often school is structured so that the child who is book smart and compliant gets praised and elevated, and I think STEM and STEAM it's one of those areas where you're providing a little bit of an equalizer and you're honoring different strengths, and so it may be the kid who's a problem solver or the kid who's able to think outside the box, and that may not be something that's celebrated in the regular classroom as much, but in your classroom it's a safe space because they're able to take the lead. 

25:40
And maybe others start recognizing them as oh, that's really cool. So I see that in the programs that I do. I'm sure you see that in your classrooms. Yeah, I do. I'm sure you see that in your classrooms. 

25:51 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yeah, you know, and even honoring the personalities, like you know, soft, interesting, like trend going around social media about personality hires and you know our companies will hire the bubbly, bright person that keeps the team together, that gives everybody a good experience, that makes work fun to come to, and you know what. Yeah, I mean how many teams need that person to build a rocket or to you know you're going to be in this thing for the long haul. You need someone that excels in interpersonal relationships. You know that's a, that's a gift, that's a, that's a skill set, a talent, and a lot of kids don't have that honored or called out, especially in the STEAM world. Because you know, I'm actually a natural creative. I actually went through elementary school, I went to three different elementary schools just because of some of the instabilities and things we were going through at the time and I literally would have told you all the way through college that I was bad at math. I did not start saying I was good at math until I decided I needed to find a teaching job. So I was like, you know, I'm going to be good at math and so I started saying that I'm good, I love math, and you know, I was like math actually is cool. You know, it's just a mindset shift and I didn't realize that's what I was doing when I was in my early 20s. But I shifted my mindset and then I actually did. I started really genuinely loving math and then I taught it for like so many years and had great results. You know, like you know, all the way from the connections I was making with the kids to my actual testing scores, you know I was making with the kids to my actual testing scores, you know were always top notch and people would come in and they would think all the kids do in Mr Payne's class is laugh all day or goof off and and all he's doing is telling weird stories. You know they come out. 

27:48
You know I make up some character, like, for instance, I have, I have a pet bacon in my classroom and I said it up. My pre-K kids they love bacon, that's his name and I'll set it up like he's like a real pet and I'll say he's over here in my closet and I'll go get him. And I was like I'll have him in my hand and it's like this rubber bacon, ok, that I found on Amazon, ok, it's like a little prop bacon. And so I'll have him in my hand like this and I'll say, all right, kids, so this is our pet, he's a class pet. Has anybody had a class pet before? 

28:22
And then I'll say, all right, now we're going to do a two finger pet and we're going to hold him. And then I'll be like all right, here he is. And then I'll reveal this bacon, this floppy piece of bacon, and they're just like huh, and they just start smiling and I'm like let's go around and I keep this story going throughout the whole year. And he's our class pet and they love bacon. Like you, come on Lackland ISD and talk to some of the parents, they're going to have heard about bacon and his adventures in Mr Payne's class. So it's just doing things like that. 

28:55 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
You're building connections and finding a way to bring joy into what you're doing. You might want to keep Bacon away from the pig I gave you, though Otherwise you're going to be answering some interesting questions, I know. 

29:09 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
No, it's yes, oh man, yeah, I've painted myself into those kind of corners so many times with the kids and they'll call you out and they'll say, Mr Payne, why do you have bacon with those pigs? And so, like, we start to like, have this improvisation back and forth, and it doesn't. It's not like an explicit thing, it's just kids love to play, but then we're going to start coding. Time to get out your iPads, let's get these robots going, and you know. And who wants to hold bacon on their shoulder while they work? 

29:43 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And so they have a little rubber bacon right there, and you know so yeah, but I think you just hit on something really important too, though, in terms of it's going beyond the textbook skills and it's developing sort of that sense of communication and collaboration, that critical thinking, the creativity that are harder to define, but are the skills that ultimately you need to be employed and to be successful in whatever you do, whether it's working for NASA or working on a Broadway stage. 

30:20 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Yep. 

30:21 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Those skills apply no matter what. 

30:23 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Mm-hmm. 

30:24 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And I think that that's one of those things that we don't necessarily talk about when we're talking about STEAM, but they undergird everything that we do. Yeah, we had a couple feet of snow for like four or five talk about when we're talking about steam, but they undergird everything that we did. 

30:41 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
hi, my colleagues, um you guys are going to be on the podcast, um they're uh, we're uh working on some steam planning, planning, so but yeah. 

30:54 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So we'll go ahead and wrap this up and I'm going to ask you just sort of a final question, which is I definitely want to continue this conversation over time because I think there's so much more we can talk about. But, as teachers are sort of thinking about gearing up for the school year and looking at their plans, if you could recommend a couple of strategies for bringing STEAM into their classroom, what would they be? 

31:19 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Start small. You start small. You start with something that you believe is doable, and if you're not sure what that is, then talk to that person at your district. We all know who that person is at our school. Who that person is at our district. That is the most techie that person at your district. We all know who that person is at our school. That person is at our district. That is the most techie, steamy person. And you just ask them what's something small that I can do? You know how do you eat an elephant? My first principal used to always say one bite at a time. So you start off with that one bite and you do it, no matter how small, and then next thing you know, it just gets the ball rolling. It's the snowball effect. So that would be my advice. You know, talk to that person, find out that one thing you can do and then just try it. Jump in, take a little bit of faith, but you can do it. 

32:06 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And then the very last question because I love to end with this is what currently brings you joy? 

32:12 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Currently brings me joy. It's going to be sounds super cliche, but teaching I'm I'm really enjoying the space that I'm in and you know, being a creative person, it's an amazing outlet for that, and so, just taking my creativity and putting in the teaching specifically, I'm coming out with some, some STEAM math songs, and I have those already on YouTube and so you can find them on my website. So right now it's making cool music for kids that's high quality but also very educational Hopefully something the kids and the parents can enjoy. 

32:54 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Awesome, and I will drop links to your YouTube channel and your website in the show notes. Jonathan Payne, thank you so much for joining me on the Adventures in Learning podcast today. It has been such a joy to get to talk with you. 

33:06 - Jonathan Payne (Co-host)
Likewise, I had a blast. Thank you for having me.