Exploring the Transformative Power of Nature Play with Jordan "Jo" Joly

Exploring the Transformative Power of Nature Play with Jordan "Jo" Joly

Ever wondered how nature can transform your life? Join us as we explore the magical intersection of play and the natural world with Jo Joly, the dynamic program manager at Families in Nature. Discover how rediscovering joy in the wilderness can lead to personal growth and a deeper connection to our environment.

Episode Summary:

In this episode, we delve into the transformative power of nature play with Jo Joly, a passionate advocate for outdoor exploration and environmental education. From her early adventures in nature to her current role at Families in Nature, Jo shares insights into how play fosters a profound connection with the natural world. Whether you're a seasoned nature lover or just beginning your outdoor journey, learn about the remarkable benefits of nature play for all ages, including enhanced health and a renewed sense of wonder.

We explore innovative nature-based learning programs that make outdoor experiences accessible to children and families, emphasizing play-based learning through immersive trips and creative activities. Jo also introduces us to forest bathing, a practice that calms the nervous system and enhances sensory awareness. This episode is an invitation to embrace curiosity and conservation through nature play, inspired by Jo's enthusiasm and dedication.

Chapters:

(0:00:03) - The Power of Play in Nature: Discover Jo Joly's journey from a nature-loving child to a leader in environmental education, emphasizing the health benefits and awe inspired by outdoor play.

(0:08:38) - Nature-Based Learning for All Ages: Explore accessible outdoor programs for families and the role of play-based learning in fostering curiosity and ecological education.

(0:16:06) - Building Connection Through Nature Play: Learn about the benefits of parallel play and practical tips for integrating nature play into daily life.

(0:21:01) - Exploring Nature With Curiosity and Wonder: Discover how nurturing children's curiosity about nature fosters lifelong learning and mindfulness.

(0:24:43) - Joy in Nature Conservation: Reconnect with nature through forest bathing and embrace a thriving relationship with the outdoors.

Links:

Families in Nature - Explore resources and programs that connect families to nature.

Ecologist School -- Explore educational programs, curriculum, and badges for families and school settings

Books - Discover captivating picture books that enhance nature literacy.

Connect with Jo Joly on LinkedIn and Instagram.

Chapters

• 0:00 The Power of Play in Nature:
• 8:38 Nature-Based Learning for All Ages
• 16:06 Building Connection Through Nature Play
• 21:01 Exploring Nature With Curiosity and Wonder
• 24:43 Joy in Nature Conservation

Transcript

00:02 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So have you ever wondered what happens when you're outside? Is it play? Is it learning? Is it both? Today we have a guest who is going to help us shine a light on all of that. She's somebody I met at the play conference this past spring and I absolutely adore her. She is so full of energy and she's got so much insight to share with us. Please welcome Jo Joly, who is the program manager at Families in Nature, to the Adventures in Learning podcast. Joe, welcome to the show. 

00:34 - Jo Joly (Guest)
Hi Diane, Thank you so much for having me. 

00:37 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I am so glad you're here. You know, one of the things that I was really drawn to about you when I met you was your sense of play and your ability to connect nature and play. You know, to me they go hand in hand, but I know we don't always think about them as two things that go together. So I kind of wanted to start with asking you to describe your own adventures in learning and how you got to be somebody who gets to combine play and nature adventures and learning and how you got to be somebody who gets to combine play and nature. 

01:10 - Jo Joly (Guest)
Great Well to start off, as a child, some of my favorite play always took place outdoors, alongside nature, from building small habitats for the critters in my yard to racing snails. And I was constantly curious about all the things around me, particularly those micro pieces of nature, the ants, the seeds, the elements. And so I always knew when I grew up that I was destined to work alongside nature. But as a high schooler, you know, the only options that were presented to me were veterinarian, zookeeper, maybe a park ranger. But I just knew that there were more opportunities out there. I just kind of had to figure out where and how. And so I got into a small program at Canisius College in Buffalo called the AVEC program, which is a comprehensive bachelor of science in animal behavior, ecology and conservation. And so these studies really opened my eyes to the diversity of opportunities available to work with animals and nature and be connected outside. And so these studies really opened my eyes to the diversity of opportunities available to work with animals and nature and be connected outside. 

02:09
And so since then, you know, I have developed 4-H programs for Title I schools, I've trained dogs at local shelters, I've traveled around the state delivering educational performances with exotic animals performances with exotic animals and through that I learned that my innate closeness to nature and talent for teaching people, children in particular, was going to be what was going to be my driving force and part of my purpose, and this led me to pursue my master's in anthrozoology, which is the study of the relationship between humans and animals, and I really focused on that time, on the child animal connection and conservation behavior. How do we create these opportunities that also translate into taking care of our earth? And so then I started interning with families in nature during my master's program, and I've been there for six years later now. So I'm the program manager now, and what I do at Finn is I create equitable access to nature and these connection experiences for everyone, regardless of age. 

03:11 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I love that and what a great way for anybody who's considering I want to do something that's STEM related, but I don't know what it is to realize that it can be really broad and that there are so many different ways to access the field. I love the way you found a way to combine your passions, so why is play important? 

03:33 - Jo Joly (Guest)
I believe one of the reasons I'm so good at my job is because I love play so much. Play, especially outdoor play, is so important. We know that there's so many health benefits to spending time outside and we know there's so many health benefits to play, and so I find that, you know, combining the two creates this magic concoction of regulated, joyful communities and families that are connected to each other and also to nature, which I think is really powerful. Which I think is really powerful. I also experience awe and wonder in a very big way, and I find that this helps other people feel comfortable doing the same. Something that suddenly would, you know, have gotten looked over so easily by someone you know, like a bee pollinating a flower, often becomes a moment to share and to learn and create some memory, and then also sparks a series of questions and inquiry that all ages get to participate in and then share and remember forever, which I really love. 

04:34
I have this specific example of I was at a nature-based leadership workshop in Vermont and, being from Texas, I was mesmerized by the carpet of moss beneath my feet and while we were sitting during a lecture, I slowly took my shoes off and just started sinking my toes into the moss and slowly I noticed, one by one, the rest of my cohort started doing the same and one woman came up to me afterwards and just thanked me for giving her that permission to let go and be free and dig her toes in the earth and to be playful. And I think it's really powerful what can happen when you operate from a lens of play. Because it's our true state, it's what we're meant to be doing. 

05:18 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And it's something that doesn't just apply to children. I mean, we know the science backs up that this is such a powerful way for young kids to learn, but it doesn't end with early childhood. It shouldn't end with early childhood. As grownups, I think that we're also hardwired to learn through play. I know that for me that's a huge part of it, and the learning through nature lens is huge as well. You know, I recently was talking to a scientist who's obsessed with lichen and I cannot unsee lichen after that. And so I find that as I'm going on my walks in the woods, as I'm walking in urban settings, I'm looking for lichen and I'm going, oh that, and then I'm like playing with it and I'm like that's the kind that's crusty or that one is like the foliage and it's just so much fun and I think that if we give ourselves permission to play, there's so much more wonder in what we do. 

06:17 - Jo Joly (Guest)
I'm loving this revolution of adult play right. We're seeing that a lot right now, which I think is so important, because everybody is overworked and stressed and what we need to do is play. 

06:27 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And I think that door was opened for us during the pandemic, when we had to slow down and we had to be outside and you know the door cracked. And I think it's now up to organizations like Families in Nature, up to those of us who are doing informal education, to sort of push that door wider for everybody. So tell us about Families in Nature and the kind of work that you do there. What does a day in your life look like? 

06:53 - Jo Joly (Guest)
So the mission of FIN, or Families in Nature, is to connect children and their families to nature and to each other through time spent learning, playing and volunteering outdoors, and ultimately, it's our vision to inspire all people to fall in love with nature, regardless of age, and foster the next generation of conservationists. And so what that looks like for me is play-based nature connection opportunities. So we have the basis, for our entire program is called the College of School and it has over a thousand activities across 16 different branches of science, all related to ecology. So you've got ornithology and you've got ichthyology, the study of fish and how can we activate that topic through the lens of play and being outside. And each of these branches of science has activities across learning disciplines of STEAM and then as well as volunteerism, outdoor skills and leadership skills. So it's really covers quite a breadth of learning opportunity. And then each branch of science comes with a accompanying badge. So if you complete four activities in each science slice, you can earn your badge, and then you get this opportunity to collect all 16 badges. It's like an ageless science scout opportunity, especially for those people I was going to say kids, but really adults love it as well who are more inclined to have that incentive piece of this beautiful embroidered badge. But you know our programs can be done by anyone anywhere. 

08:20
But we also highlight the activities that we've created through our in-person programming. And what that looks like for me is I lead camping trips throughout Central Texas and a lot of the times it's bridging first-time campers, taking them outside and helping them feel comfortable. We have a whole gear library full of outdoor gear so you don't need any of your own expensive camping gear to come try it out with us. And then we focus on the whole weekend is child led, it is play based, it is hands on exploration. So we do anywhere from, you know, a week long trip to Costa Rica to really get an immersive nature connection experience. An immersive nature connection experience all the way to a two-hour fishing event at a local park where kids can really kind of hone in on one specific science slice or learning discipline and who can come and do these things with you. 

09:11 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I'm like Costa Rica. Can I join you? 

09:13 - Jo Joly (Guest)
Yes, exactly Anyone can join. So you know, typically a Central Texas campout is going to be a bit restrictive for someone in New York, but we have travel opportunities. Usually every year we've got a more, um, our hope nature travel program, which is, like I mentioned, is more of that immersive, off-grid typically experience. Um, I got to take some folks to Baja California a few years ago and and see baby gray whales in the wild and that's a life, yeah, and then and then all of our lessons and our resources are available to anybody online, and so you know, if you're just wanting to supplement your education, your kids' education, at home, or need some afterschool activities, or you want to boost your in-school time, if you're a teacher, we have tons of free resources for anyone. 

10:02 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And I will make sure to drop a link to those in the show notes, because I've got to tell you I looked at the lessons and they're incredible and if you're looking to add that ecology or that nature component to what you're doing, this is a fabulous opportunity and it's really kind of Finn to make this available. Thanks we, you know, access is everything, right oh absolutely so what are some of your favorite lessons that you've developed? 

10:29 - Jo Joly (Guest)
Oh, we love. I'm a bird fan, I'm a bird nerd and a bug nerd, and so I really love the hands-on you know creation of a bird nest inspired by a specific local species or an exploration of the different adaptations of bird beaks and creating your own type of bird beak based off of a species that you know you saw in a field guide, and then going out and collecting the supplies that you need to be able to make that beak and then try to actually go around and pick up seeds or try to pick up you know worms and seeing you know how that can actually translate and create a fun experience. That's also, you know, based in learning. I also really love our I'm very artsy, so I love any of our activities that incorporate an art element or an outdoor skills element, encouraging kids to learn how to use a compass you know some of those tools that are often getting lost, I think and so bringing a way to allow kids to have their own autonomy over their experiences outside. 

11:32 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
That sounds amazing. You know you were talking about the bird beaks and I remember when I was working at a children's museum, we would do an animal adaptations program where we did something like that and we had different tools that the kids would use. So there were chopsticks and there were like the big slotted spoons for the spoon bills, and there were pliers and different kinds of tools for them to experiment with, trying to match what beak was like what bird. And you know how would you use that tool appropriately, which was always a lot of fun. Um, and then I was thinking about the art section of it. 

12:07
One of the things I used to love to do is to have kids research and learn about the birds and then create their own. Like you know, you want to. You want a bird who will survive in the uh, wilds where the temperature is super cold. What does that bird need? How are you going to create a bird that will survive? So I love that you guys have those kinds of things. Do you also link literacy to the lessons? Do you connect picture books to what you all do? 

12:33 - Jo Joly (Guest)
So typically we haven't done too much of linking specific books. When we work with teachers we certainly help give with recommendations of ways to tie in. You know they're often the ones that come to us. We're like oh we, you know we read a book about a snake this week. How can we take that inspiration and use that as our learning subject for the day instead of oh I have, you know this, x, y, z, I've got to get done. 

12:57
Everybody finds it much more effective when you really go with the flow of interest right, when you're really following that, that child led model and so kind of helping helping folks pick out books here and there. But I'm a huge Bird Baylor fan and so I always like to share her books with, with our guides especially. I'm a forest therapy guide as well, and so Bird Baylor's work about nature connection and really being anchored in the well, and so Bird Failers work about nature connection and really being anchored in the land. And you know there's everybody needs a rock, and I think the other one is a new way to listen, and so the other way to listen, and so those are some of my personal favorites. 

13:40 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I love it and I know I like books like what's in your Pocket, which is kids going out and collecting, but then you're seeing stories of scientists and how they got started as kids, which is a beautiful one. I love the Over and Under series, where you're in different ecosystems and it's over and under the watershed, over and under the watershed, over and under the pond, over and under the canyon. Each one sort of gives you sort of that macro and that micro look. Jason Chin has also done a really nice job in terms of sort of doing a dive into different ecologies and being able to see the world both from a macro point of view and a micro point of view. So it's always fun for me to sort of go okay, how can we connect the books to allow a teacher to go even deeper with what they're doing? 

14:28 - Jo Joly (Guest)
Oh, I love that You're going to have to send me those. 

14:30 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I will gladly send those with you. So are there examples you can give us about different types of play and how we can connect play seamlessly like with preschool, early childhood, elementary learning? I know we've been talking some about adults, but how do we zero in on the younger kids in terms of connecting that natural tendency to play to the learning that I know that teachers feel they're held more and more accountable for? 

14:57 - Jo Joly (Guest)
Yeah, I think you know I had mentioned before. You know, my favorite type of learning and I think the most impactful type of learning is child led, because it's inherently rooted in play exploring your surroundings, observing nature, activating the senses. That's a huge piece of the program we do because it's got the mental health benefits directly tied into that as well. It's got the mental health benefits directly tied into that as well, and then that's scalable. So starting at a very young age, teaching a child how to parse out each different sense and connect to nature in that way, and then also regulate while doing so, I think is like a great way to begin. We also, you know, we encourage a lot of social emotional learning, a lot of peer by peer learning, because our programs are also all ages altogether. This leads to really valuable, valuable learning experiences where you've got a 13 year old that's leading a group of six year olds and then you've got, you know, a toddler hanging around as well, and the different levels of absorption from a lesson can be so vast but also be so relevant to all age levels. But I think playing outside in particular supports the my favorite type of play, which is parallel play. That is one of my still as an adult. 

16:15
One of my favorite ways to play is to do my own thing in silence next to somebody else who's doing their own passionate thing in silence. Dig in the dirt and the elements, using your creativity to then creatively storytell and then develop social dynamics. That is one of my favorite things that I get to witness is kids just learning that social, social, emotional piece through the parents. Just taking a step back, we all just sit and watch right. Most of what my programming is it's just making sure that everybody stays safe. You know nobody's on fire and the parents and I get to spend a lot of time just, you know, networking and chatting, and the kids often take care of themselves when you give them the chance to kind of, you know, create their own village because they they do. 

17:06 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Oh, that's wonderful. And if I were a parent or a caregiver who sort of wanted to bring a little more play-based nature play into my child's life, how would you tell me to sort of get going on that? 

17:23 - Jo Joly (Guest)
So one of the biggest things is the science. Right now points to two hours a week is all of the time that you need to spend out in nature to really start getting the benefits both the mental and the physical benefits At a minimum of 20 minutes per exposure outside. 20 minutes is nothing, you know. By the time we think about 20 minutes it's over with. So that's what I would start with. There is just aim to spend a little bit more time intentionally as a family. 

17:55
If you can together outside for 20 minutes, if you can do five days a week, 20 minutes outside, a walk down your road and back, you know, a quick color exploration. My favorite things are a walking scavenger hunt, some colors. Let's go see what we can match while we're just walking down the street. Or, for the older kids, you know, bringing in those science concepts what is symmetry? Okay, now how can I go explore that around me? What is a habitat? Well, let's go look. What are tracks and signs? We can just walk for 10 minutes and we're going to and just being able to, you know, boost that observational skill. The kids are going to be able to absorb so much and then the next time they go out they're going. 

18:40
Oh, I want to go see that that nest in that tree. Oh, it's not there anymore. I wonder what happened. And so I really I think just starting with the smallest amount of intentional time spent together outside, and then, if you want to incorporate some more specific learning elements, then go on our website and get some of our free activity ideas, but really it's mostly about the time spent. All time spent in nature is equal time spent in nature, so you can just be laying on a blanket under the sun looking at some grass, and that is just as valuable as if you are hiking up the top of a mountain, and so I think people forget that, and so nearby nature is so powerful in that way. 

19:20 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Oh, and I like that concept of nearby nature and also of consistency, because when you do something over and over even if it's like that 10 minutes you start to notice things and so you're sort of building on layer on layer of observation skills as well, and then that sparks creativity because you start asking those, hmm, I wonder questions. 

19:42
That's been happening to me right where I live. I'm in the suburbs of a small town and we have a white Chinese goose which is evidently the domesticated version of a snow goose I have gone down a rabbit hole on this recently who has joined a flock of Canada geese, and I have been watching this goose the entire season and now feel like I'm a little bit of anthropomorphizing because I'm starting to try to get in her brain and go okay, what's going on? Because the other night she was sad and she was honking or at least it sounded that way, like it was a different honk than it had been, there were more geese and it was sort of like hmm, is everybody playing nice in the sandbox? But then everything was back to normal and I was like I've created this whole saga in my head about the geese, but it's the same kind of stuff that you can do wherever you are. 

20:32 - Jo Joly (Guest)
It might be a saga about the little bird's nest that the Robins have made, or it could be just watching the tree and watching the lichen that we talked about Well and that creates connection to place too right, which is so important because you know, on a bigger scale, how can we conserve anything that we don't even know about? We can't conserve what we don't love and what we don't understand, and so I think for early childhood it's just exposure. I have a two and a half year old niece and I was, I was there the other day. She goes auntie Jo, show me Keda, and I was like what is she saying? Oh, cicada. 

21:11
And she was like show me Kata, and I was like, all right, I actually know for a fact that there's a dead cicada out in the front yard. Let's go look at it and this two and a half year old, who's got a mother, who's actually petrified of butterflies and I am the anti-bug, I am nature aunt, that's my job, but she's already, you know, really curious about, you know, okay, this cat. This is a caterpillar, but why does it look like a worm? And I'm like you're two and a half, and so these conversations, this inquiry, can get started so early, and I think that it's, I think that's really important. 

21:48 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And we don't have to have the answers. That's the other thing I would throw out for any adults who are listening is you don't have to know. The best answer you can say is let's find out together. 

22:00 - Jo Joly (Guest)
I totally agree. I use that one a lot People. You know I'm a Texas master naturalist. I've got a lot of roots in, you know, science and ecology and I do know quite a bit about our local ecosystems. But there's a lot I don't know and so people just assume that I would know things. And when I tell them I don't even know, it also allows them to create more space and more humility to realize it's okay to not know. If this lady who actually spends her free time, you know, learning about nature, doesn't even know, then then that's okay. And one of my favorite bridges, I think, to help with that. People are all the time like how did you know what that butterfly was? I'm like I use this fancy app, this free app called Seek I love Seek. 

22:44 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Seek and Merlin are two of my favorite apps. 

22:47 - Jo Joly (Guest)
I think they're such a great bridge for people who want to learn a little bit more. And they're so. They're so low stakes, they are low commitment. You know, you take a picture and it tells you exactly what that butterfly is. And now, next time, when someone's like, what's that butterfly? You're like, oh, that's a gold fritillary. And then people are like how did you know? Oh, my fancy app told me. But then you start to remember it on your own. 

23:14 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And then you this huge knowledge of the world around you and helps you really, really connect. I think that's awesome. So you said something that intrigued me forest therapy. Tell me a little bit more about that. 

23:22 - Jo Joly (Guest)
Yeah, so I'm a forest and nature therapy guide through the Association of Nature and Forest Therapy and what that means? Well, what forest bathing is in general, it's been a big buzzword the last few years. People get confused because I get emails like, do I wear a bathing suit? And you know, is there water? I didn't even know there was water at this park. I'm like, okay, so breaking it down, shinrin yoku is a Japanese term that directly translates to bathing in the chemicals of the forest. 

23:54
So it's adjacent to a sun bath or a sound bath, right, that version of bathing versus hopping in a tub. And so what we do is I go through a series of invitations that help people tap into their bodies, calm their nervous systems and activate their senses. So back to that, that sensory exploration. You know we're really slowing down. We are spending a minute just listening. What can we hear? What is the farthest thing we can hear? What is the closest thing we can hear? 

24:25
You know we are observing what's in motion, getting fixated on a tiny insect, following their journey for 10 minutes, or standing and observing, you know, the micro movements or the macro movements in nature. And just really honestly, it's it just gets us out of our head. We are so focused on going from A to B and this is just an excuse for you to put your phone away and really just observe what's going on around you and and the amount of people who come through our forest bathing and, you know, have reports afterwards of I had. I never even seen something like that before, and I've lived here my whole life. I've never even noticed that before. I feel so relaxed, and so I lead sessions like that for adults only, families, kids and anybody else who's you know interested and and really just helping relieve the stressors of what it is to live right now. 

25:18 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I love that, Joe. It has been so much fun talking to you today. Before we close, I'm going to ask you the question. I always love to leave people with what currently brings you joy. 

25:32 - Jo Joly (Guest)
That is something we talk about a lot in in my work Currently. 

25:39
What brings me the most joy is just seeing, is seeing the growth that among the people that I take outside, I experience a lot of joy myself and it can be easy to be bogged down when everywhere else go from being uncomfortable outside, you know, often afraid of insects, of the elements, to thriving and comfortable and eager to learn and spend more time outside with their families or kids, who are neurodivergent, that really struggle in a traditional classroom setting. They thrive in nature, they are leaders, they are your fire tenders and so just getting to watch that development because we are so estranged from nature and it brings me so much joy to see people recognize that their place is in nature and they're allowed to, at whatever age, rekindle that curiosity and comfort in that relationship with the natural world, in that relationship with the natural world we say at Families in Nature. A love of nature is the foundation of all conservation and I feel really lucky to be a part of fostering that love for a lot of people. So that definitely brings me joy. 

27:03 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
That brings me joy too, and I will make sure that we include all of the links to Families in Nature in our show notes, because I want people to check out the amazing lessons and the amazing work that you all are doing. Thank you so much for sharing your joy and your passion with us today. It's been such a joy for me to get to talk to you again, I know Likewise. 

27:25 - Jo Joly (Guest)
Thank you, it's been lovely. This is. I always love to get a chance to share about what we're doing and what I'm passionate about, so I really appreciate the invitation.