Unveiling the Past: A Tale of Resistance And Courage with Michael P. Spradlin’s Threat of the Spider

When Threat of the Spider, the second installment in the Web of the Spider series, came across my desk, I knew we had to have the author, Michael P Spradlin on the podcast. I couldn't put the book down. It's so relevant to where we are today. Join us for a discussion about why we need to study history and how important it is build meaningful connections from the past to our present.

Spanning the years 1929 to 1934, the series highlights the courageous resistance of the Edelweiss Pirates against the rising Nazi regime in Germany. Michael discusses the historical inspirations behind his storytelling, drawing parallels between the political upheaval of the past and the troubles our world faces today. As we delve into his creative process, we explore themes of friendship, political tension, and the importance of exploring history through literary adventures. 

We also tackle the contemporary issues of book banning and censorship, advocating for informed discourse and the empowerment of young readers. Join us for an engaging exploration of storytelling's power to bridge history and modern life, offering both education and adventure.

Chapters with Timestamps:

00:03: The Power of Historical Fiction: Michael Spradlin discusses the inspiration and themes behind the Threat of the Spider, the second installment in the Web of the Spider series.

09:31: Unpacking the Historical Adventure: Explore the author's research process and the immersive settings that bring the fictional world to life, with insights into future character developments.

14:05: Character Development and Plot Resolution: The creative process behind crafting unique characters and maintaining reader engagement.

19:35: Preserving History Through Literature: The transformative impact of World War II and the role of historical fiction in engaging young readers with the past.

25:02: The Impact of Banned Books And Censorship: The importance of reading widely and fostering a love for literature.

36:43: Themes of Friendship and Adventure

Links:

Michael Spradlin's Official Website

Follow Michael Spradlin on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube

Join us in celebrating the power of storytelling to illuminate history and inspire modern-day readers. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review!

Transcript

00:02 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast For my regular listeners. You know that I tend to focus on early childhood and elementary stories. Often there's a science or a STEM component, but when this book came across my desk, I knew we had to talk to the author. I got the second installment, which is just out Threat of the Spider from the Web of the Spider series and I couldn't put it down. I read it and I read it and I stopped, and then I read some more, and it's so relevant to where we are today that I am so excited to introduce you to the author, michael Spradlin, and be able to talk to you about why we need to study history and how important these books are, but also just how freaking well written this is. So, michael, welcome to the show. 

00:56 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
Thank you very much for having me. Thank you for those kind words. I'll be sure to share them with my editor.. 

01:05 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, please do so, Michael. I know I picked up the second book in the series because this one is coming out right now and it's so powerful. 

01:16
It starts before World War II happened, so it's in that time, that space in between, that we don't learn about in school. You know the time between World War I and World War II, and I know that as I was reading I missed the first book, and so I went back and reread the first book later and realized this stands alone beautifully, without needing to have read the first book. But they certainly play well on each other. Can you tell us what tell us about the series and sort of what inspired you to write this? 

01:46 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
Yes, I do think it works well together. The plan for the series is for it to cover the years 1929 until 1934, when Hitler, after the chancellor, dies and Hitler is named Chancellor of Germany. The Chancellor dies and Hitler is named Chancellor of Germany. We also wanted to do each book from a different point of view, from a different character, which is something that we started. You know, obviously, in book two Some of the characters will be Jewish, some are not, but all of them have this rather deep distaste for what they see happening to their country and the idea for this kind of resistance, focused story came to me. 

02:41
I was talking to an editor and I really wanted to write for some time a book about the Edelweiss pirates and for those who don't know, they were a group of children, basically actually during the war in the late 1940s, who were opposed to the Hitler regime, engaged in acts of espionage, propaganda. Some were caught and executed at 12, 13, 14 years old and I just found that to be fascinating and was going to write about that. And when this conversation it became this wide ranging conversation about the history of that place and if these kids in World War II, when their country is, everything is falling on top of them. They don't have anything to eat. They're. You know, where did that, where did that indomitable spirit come from? It had to come from somewhere and it came from their brother, older brothers and sisters and cousins who watched what happened. And I think it's important to note for the record that not everyone in Germany was a Nazi or Supreme. I mean, that's really important. You know, they took. 

03:55
A lot of people think that Hitler just took power overnight, and that's not the case at all. I mean, when you get to 1934, when he is actually finally named chancellor and he abolishes everybody, every other political party, kills all his political enemies, it looks like he's taking power overnight, but it was a long slog of, you know, 10 to 15 years of parliamentary elections and gaining seats, losing seats, and gaining seats and and, until he finally, you know, was able to take over. And so that to me is like the amount of time that you know, to these kids that are experiencing it at age 12, 13, it seems like forever, but eventually it's not going to seem like forever, you know it's. I mean, at the age they're at now. It's like one 10th of their life. You know what they've been through in the last year, but it's, it's anyway. It's just an important distinction, I think, to make. 

05:03 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, and I think as I was reading, I found so many of the things they were going through in pre-World War II Germany very parallel to what our society feels like it's experiencing today, from the upheaval in the stock market, the depression, the rise of totalitarianism. There were many points that I stopped and shivered a little bit as I look at our headlines and look at what was going on in Germany and I realized you didn't write this this year. You clearly were writing before we hit 2025. And so, as a historian, 2025. 

05:50
And so, as a historian, I'm assuming you've noted the parallels and wondering sort of what your take is on that. 

05:52 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
Well, for sure, you know, there's certainly many, many parallels to what's happening and in some ways I found it kind of odd that there was an analogous comparison of the United States during the Great Depression and Germany, in terms of you know, both countries were economically flat on their backs. The situation was actually believe it or not, was much worse in Germany. You had 50% or more unemployment. You had, you know, banks failing one right after the other, no jobs, no hope of jobs, and it was, it was a. 

06:34
And, having come out of World War I, the Great War, and having been so, so punitively treated, they felt whether you know, you can, you can't tell the cars come home. But they felt unfairly treated. They felt whether you know, we can do that until the cars come home. But they felt unfairly treated. They felt that they were blamed for many of the things in the Great War and were forced to being paid for many of the things in the Great War that they were not responsible for. So that led to this bitterness and resentment and that, you know, when you start working on a project like this, you say okay, I'm going to go to 1929. Well then, well, I got to go back to the Great War, because some of what's happening now you know, and I remember reading about the Treaty of Versailles Commission, john Maynard Keynes, the Nobel Prize winning economist, was on, was on the Committee for Britain, economist was on, was on the committee for britain and he resigned because he said this treaty is not a treaty, it's a 20-year ceasefire and almost 20 years to the day, oh, wow, uh, it started back up again and uh, so it's. It's just this stuff that you find, that you come to understand that a lot of it, in some form or another, has happened before and it will happen probably again. Unfortunately, you know, we tend to have to do things 10 or 12 times before we get the sense not to do them anymore. You know, but it is. 

08:03
You know, I think I've always felt that historical fiction was a great way to get kids involved in something. 

08:09
I think some of the novels that I've written before prior to this, the best thing I get is when I get the letters or the emails like well, I, I read your book about the USS Indianapolis, and then I went to the library and I got a bunch more books about it and then I got really interested in it and then I did a report on it for school and then, um, my dad had me take it to the Rotary Club for one. 

08:32
You know, I mean just, and it is just one little push, it's that spark and it, and you know it, just rolls downhill. Um, and I that that to and I I've always felt that that's a great historical fiction, is a great way to and this and this in particular, because this series is set in a time with a lot of things happening that really are not easy to break down. I mean, there's a lot of socioeconomic, political, economic, you know you name it and to try to break that down to a middle grade audience without a lot of exposition or a lot of, you know, fruit, you know throwaway dialogue is, is a challenge and and but it's, you know, hopefully it's, hopefully it's working so far. 

09:21 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, and you know, I was talking to Laurie Halse Anderson  a couple of weeks ago for the podcast and she was talking about how she doesn't like the term historical fiction. She'd far rather have people talk about it as historical adventure, because she's like I do all the research, but just like a fantasy novel. We're world building and we're creating these incredible worlds. They just happen to be grounded, in fact, and I was thinking you created this village where I felt like I could walk down the street and I could find the burned out shop where his father starts to run the local newspaper, or you know where they were playing capture the flag, like all of that was really vivid to me. Where did you go to sort of do your research? Did you go to Germany? How did you put this together to build your world? 

10:10 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
You did. I spent time in Nuremberg and in Haraldsburg and I'm not ashamed to say I've become obsessed with Haraldsburg. It is just like the most beautiful, quaint Bavarian town that you could. I mean, it's just absolutely stunningly gorgeous, and every time you turn around you think you're going to see Cinderella's castle popping up on a hill somewhere. And it just is in this area. That's just like I said, it's just. It takes your breath away when you look in any direction. 

10:42
And so I I, I sent, you know, my my wife went with me and we spent time there and I walked all over the place. I walked to the field where the capture flag game takes place, the Creek, which I knew cause I knew they, they, you know these are. You also have to remember that these are 12 year olds, you know. So they're going to be playing ice hockey and they're going to be playing, you know, capture the flag and all these other things. While this, you know, life goes on around them. But it was just a real and it was. 

11:16
In some cases. It was a first for me because, with a lot of the stuff that I've written before, historical adventure is that that world doesn't exist anymore. So to try to go visit, it doesn't really give you what you're looking for. Haraldsburg had been preserved, not damaged too much at all. Nuremberg had been extensively bombed, but the city fathers built the old city back the way it was before the war, so it still looks like a medieval city. And so I was able to and I think, and I do think it had a really profound impact on me to be able to to do that, because I felt like I, like you just said, like well, you know, over here is Mrs, where Mrs Huffnagle kept her, you know apple fritter stand, and over there's the tailor shop, and I mean it. Just I've never had something like that before and I think it, I think it really paid dividends. 

12:17 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And you started with Rolf's story. This one tells Ansel's story. Where is the series going from here? 

12:25 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
Series will go on to. In book three it will be Joshua's story. Joshua is kind of Ralph and Ansel's sidekick right now and he will also be the first Jewish character in the series, and then in book four it will be, which I'm working on right now. It will be twins, moritz and Matilda Leibowitz. The bookstore owner. 

12:52 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Oh, I'm so glad we get to see more of Matilda. 

12:55 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
Yeah, I love Matilda. I do too. She's going to. Her parents are communists, so part of their story is going to take place before they come to Haraldsburg, when they're living in the Soviet Union and the Ukraine on a collective farm during the famine and trying to survive. And then she gets to um harold's burg and she thinks, oh, my god, what a breath of fresh air. 

13:26
And then the next thing you know, here come the nazis right so it's, it's going to be, and then after that it will be um, there'll be a, uh, um, another character, that two characters that we haven't met yet uh, avram, who is the son of the local rabbi, uh, and uh, the other one I haven't haven't come up with a name for yet, but it will be. Uh, there'll be. You know, like I said, there'll be more jewish characters will be, uh, trying to get you know all the viewpoints in here that I can and and uh, um, so far, I mean, that's, that's the plan. I don't, I don't, I'm not sure if any of them will be able to top Ansel in my book, but I was going to say, Ansel is really quite the character and I loved his unassailable facts his rules for living. 

14:18 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
How did you come up with those? 

14:21 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
You know, I need to start paying better attention to that kind of stuff, because I knew I wanted him to be quirky and, you know, a little bit of a gadfly, and I think what I was doing I was just Googling, like like dumb proverbs or something like that, like old proverbs that don't make any sense, or Right, and then I said, oh, that's funny, but I can make these up now, you know. So there's a mix. There's some that are like supposedly old Polish proverbs and some are are just stuff that I I said, okay, that sounds like Ansel, you know, and it is something that I mean it's. 

15:01
Somebody asked me in it about, you know, bringing some levity to the story and and using those his, his little facts which right now, as you know from book two, like rick, ralph and and and joshua, just skip right over. I mean they just don't yeah, what, yeah, and and, but for him, I mean it just keeps him, it keeps him sane, you know, it keeps him uh's watching, watching the world spin out of control, and so if you want to anger the common wild glider, keep throwing at peanuts, you know? I mean that's, that's a, that's something that he can hold onto and, like I said, and then does bring some levity to a situation where in a in a time and a place where I think humor was in short supply, unfortunately, Right. 

15:54 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, and I found myself thinking. You know, I said at the beginning this was so well written. You made these characters compelling, and I mean even the characters that play a minor role in this one but will play a bigger role in the future. I mean, clearly I would have great affection for Matilda, but what I found myself thinking is because you're writing in a specific point in history. We know how, we sort of know how some of these stories end, or we can guess. How does that impact your relationship with the characters? You know, know you're writing in this period of time when they're 12, but it's I think and again anything that I say here cannot be held against me understood, of course three books to go, and what something may change, I don't know. 

16:41 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
But at the beginning of this whole process, um, there I think there will be a prologue of what happened up to the war to each of the characters and after the final book. And then after and this is the only time this has ever happened to me, it's never happened to me before where I saw the absolutely the last scene and the ending with the last character on the page, I said that's how it's going to end. Wow, I've never I've got chills or had that happen before, because I don't usually know how it's gonna. I mean, precisely, I know how it's gonna sort of end. But I'm much more a fan of letting the characters do the heavy lifting and do the work, because they're usually a lot smarter than me that way. And I knew that when we first talked about it. I said you know there's going to have to be some type of resolution, because this will end almost, you know, eight years before the war starts. 

17:55 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Right. 

17:55 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
And I said that's a long time and by then these are going to be 20 somethings. You know, that are, you know, and some of them are going to be fighting. Some of them are going to be, you know, and some of them are going to be fighting. Some of them are going to be, you know. And I said that. I said I know right now that you've got to promise me that I can do a prologue, because I don't want to get all the emails and letters. 

18:17 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
You don't want the calls from you going what happened? 

18:24 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
You need to fix that. So but and it it's so funny, kids just get so indignant. 

18:30
Because I'm probably haven't haven't noticed yet, but I'm a big user and believer in the cliffhanger in a novel, especially if it's in a series yes um, and you know, I always go to schools and I and that is usually about the first five or 10 minutes is being berated for using cliffhangers in my book. You know, like, why do you do that? I want to know what's going on right now. And I'm like, okay, did you? And then I'll say did you read the youngest Templar keeper of the grill? Well, yes, I said, and it ends in the he's in a shipwreck and you don't know if he's going to survive or not. So what did you do when the second book came out? Well, I went to the library and I got it and I read it. You're like bingo Me, me, me, me, me, me. You win some lovely parting gifts. 

19:22 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So when they come at you for the ending of Threat of the Spider, you'll tell them they have to wait for the next book. 

19:27 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
Right, exactly, yeah, or the next something, yeah, I don't know, but that's, that's a. That was like really kind of at the forefront of my mind was that there is such, you know, I consider, and one of the reasons somebody asked me, you know, what interests you in World War II and World War II history, and I think there's a couple of reasons. Number one my dad was a vet and I grew up in a really small town in Michigan and so every man in that small town that was my dad's age was also a vet, I mean everybody. And that is, it was like this thing, you know, this part of the place, the war everybody would talk about, well, during the war, during the war, during the war, and and it, it just held this fascination for me and and then, starting to study it, I I found that, you know, there was that. And then I also think that, and I truly do believe this, and I don't want to get into whataboutisms or anything like that, but I do think it is the thus far it's the most transformative event in human history. 

20:45
I think you know, you look at what, everything that happened, not only geopolitically, what happened afterwards with the Cold War, but you look at like, even like it was the United States Armed Forces that sparked the beginning of desegregation in this country. All these things you know, women in the workforce, all these things that cascaded from that singular event and we still live on. You know their, what they paid, you know, 80 years ago, right, and I just don't think there are too many things in human history that you can say that about. You know, and and so to me it's just, it's like uh, uh, there's just so many stories and so many great stories and it, you know it, my uh, previous novels, you know all, tell, you know you mentioned, you know, historical adventure. 

21:41
They're all based on true stories, right, there's no wars based on the life of america's youngest pow in world war ii. Um, these are all based on things that happen to real people, unlike you know, like I said, I, I I did all the research and all the investigating and then I made some of it up, you know, uh, to tell the story, and it's not a phd thesis, it's not, you know, anything like that. But I hope that, like I said, it seems to be getting kids interested in these, these things and learning more, and that's what I, you know, when I talk at schools, I'm always you got to read more, you got to read more, you have to read more, you know. 

22:22 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Right, and we're at a time in our history where there seems to be interest in erasing our history rather than in digging deeper, like you're trying to encourage kids to do. What would you say to educators and families who are trying to work against there that are? 

22:38 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
you know, trying to censor things and to ban books and all those things is, I think the whole that whole ecosphere could be helped a lot by just taking a deep breath, you know. Just take a deep breath, step back a minute. It's a book, it's not some insidious you know thing. That's, and I point to my own experience with my own mother. When my sister was my much older sister was in, I think, seventh grade there was a new social studies teacher that came to our school. There was a new social studies teacher that came to our school and this was okay, so this was a 60s, so he was kind of a, you know, a hippie and, you know, had all these new ideas and new thoughts and stuff like that, and and I, you know, and my mom was not but, um, he wanted the class to read a day in the life of Ivan Denisovich by Alexander Solzhenitsyn, which I don't know if you've ever read it, but it's just an incredibly dark book about being put in a gulag in the Soviet Union and all this horrible. I mean it's horrible. It's a great piece of writing and I feel better and richer as a human being for having read it, but, man, it is dark. And my mom went to the teacher and said you know what? I don't think my daughter is ready to read this yet. I don't think she has quite the grasp on these events or the emotional maturity yet to handle some of these things. And I just, I'm hoping that we can find some other book for her to read that would accomplish the same purpose. But not, you know, if the other kids want to read it, that's fine. You know, if their parents are OK with it, that's fine. I just, I just want to advocate for her a little bit. And you know, do my job as a parent. And and he was like, yeah, fine, and I don't remember what she read, but she read something else. And I'm like, be like my mom, right, you know, I mean, no one's saying that you can't advocate for your child. Right, certainly can, but you can't advocate for everyone else's child Exactly. 

25:01
And you know, I, I, I, I, I don't like this joke anymore because I used to joke about it all the time, but now it's getting to be, it's almost too serious to even joke about. But I said, you know, every time Banned Books Weeks would come up, I'd write an essay and say what do I have to do to get my books banned. I mean, come on, people, I'll help brother out, would you? Um and uh, you know that's. Nothing like that has happened. I've gotten some weird letters and some concerned letters from parents and stuff like that, but nothing has ever happened to me like that and I must. I can't imagine what it must feel like to see people I don't know. I mean, I think often we don't read Western. We try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. 

25:56 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Ok, right, no but sometimes I feel like at least as I've been following it the people requesting the bans haven't read the books, and so it's a knee-jerk reaction, rather so. It's not even advocating for your own child at that point, because you don't know what you're advocating for right, and we had that. 

26:14 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
We had a harry potter thing many years ago in the town where I live, and then, uh, it was finally put to rest by a brilliant response to a letter that some concerned brilliant response to a letter that some concerned parent had written about witchcraft and all that. And the person wrote what's being left out here is that these books 600, 800, a thousand pages are inspiring kids to read and, you know, read them again and again in another book, a book like it, and again in another book, a book like it. And so here's my suggestion let's leave the books on the shelf and if any kid at the school manages to turn a teacher into a toad. 

26:57 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
We'll remove them. That's brilliant. 

27:00 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
And it all died right there, just like right there. Oh my gosh, I think everybody can finally step back and say, ok, we're being kind of ridiculous here, you know, but it is a. It is a thing that I think you know. Like I, I want you to be able to, to stand up for your child and stand up for your faith and stand up for everything, but I don't want, I don't need you to stand up for me. 

27:26 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Right, no I can. 

27:27 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
I can or my kid, right, no, I can, I can or my kid. You know I can do that on my own. 

27:31
Now, that makes a lot of sense because that's my job, and you know that I just, I don't know. I feel like it. Just like you just said, though, I feel like so much of this is getting done and nobody has any idea what it is they're doing or talking about. Or, you know they not to get into too political, but they, you know that were chanting from the river to the sea, and a reporter went up and asked this couple, you know, do you know which river this is referring to? No, Do you know which sea this is referring to? No, Just to the river to the sea. That's all you know. Yep, I mean, they have. They don't have any idea what they're even. 

28:27 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Right, well, and you were saying before we got on the official call, that you're sort of the official, you're the historian in your family, you're the official fact checker. I've got to imagine you're putting your skills to work a lot these days. It is a lot. Guide us through how to do that, because I feel like we all need a crash course in how to do fact-checking, and it is you know there are all these things that people could find out with a five-minute Google search. 

28:59 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
You know they go on and on about. You know, this administration, this and this administration, that, and I'm like, go back and read about the presidency of John Tyler, where he was forced to resign from both parties and his entire cabinet resigned and he was burned in effigy on the White House steps. That's pretty bad. Things are pretty bad when that happens. You know we've had, we've had. 

29:24
I did a book called Close Calls, a nonfiction book, which was just a kind of a fun book about presidents that had faced these life and death situations before, either in wartime or some other time building in the White House. We've had gunfights, we've had bombings, we've had. I mean, it just has happened and happened over and over and over and over again, and in a free society it's going to continue to. That's just part of it and it's I don't know. So I guess if people ask me, you know well, aren't, aren't you concerned about what's going on? I'm like, no, it's not. It Not that I'm not concerned, but I would say sometimes I'm a little bemused because we've seen this before and somehow we we find our way through it. You know, and I, I, I just want to, I'm going to go down and believe in that. I mean, that's, that's the hill I'm going to die on, that's the pathway for finding our way through. 

30:31 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
How have they done it in the past? 

30:33 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
Take a breath step back, cool the rhetoric, realize that not everybody that is different than you is your enemy is different than you is your enemy, um, that people want different things, need different things. Um, my, my dad had an expression with me and my sisters, uh, about minding each other's yard. When we would, we'd be like I'd be getting in my sister's agitating, or something. He'd be like, mind your own yard, and he'd say it to them too. Like you two, mind your own yard, and he'd say it to them too. Like you, you too mind your own yard. And, and of course, I used it on my kids and and that's that's it. You know, we have to, we have to remind, we have to raise our families ourselves, our children, to be good, thoughtful citizens, and I truly believe that the American spirit will shine through that and that we will become better than we are, at least. At least, that's what I hope. 

31:35 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, and I think I would add to that, maybe the other missing piece is reading stories about people and experiences. Reading widely stories about people and experiences. Reading widely stories about people and experiences that are different than you as well, to build your empathy muscles so that you have compassion for people in other situations. 

31:53 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
If I could just tell you one thing my son and I my dad was at Bastogne at the Battle of the Bulge and I always wanted to go see it. So my son, a few years ago he took me to Normandy where my uncle was killed on Omaha Beach on June 6. And then we went on by train to Bastogne and there's a cafe there called the Nuts Cafe, which is when the American army was surrounded by the Germans. The Germans sent a surrender demand and the American commander sent back a one word reply, which was nuts sent a surrender demand and the American commander sent back a one-word reply, which was nuts. And that anyway they have these flags in this cafe. One is of the United States and one is the 101st Airborne Division regimental flag. And people that have come through there for the last 80 years have penned dollar bills to these flags with the name of their loved one written on the dollar bill, whoever was at the Battle of the Bulge or, you know, in the army at that time. 

32:51
And my dad came right into the tail end and I asked the bartender if I could borrow a pen, if it was okay, and he said oh, absolutely. And I went over. I had my back to the, to the tavern, to the pub, and I went over, I had my back to the, to the tavern, to the pub, and I was pinning it up and when I pinned it up and turned it around, the entire pub stood and applauded. Now talk about a gut punch. Yeah, I mean, because they know, they know, they lived through it. You know, and we don't, we really don't know how lucky we are in this country. We really do not. 

33:40
And to have them do that. You know, I'm just some guy, you know, my dad was a sergeant in the artillery, I mean, and here they stood up and applauded, you know, because they understood that it was liberation and it was sacrifice, and they still understand it to this day, that that American commander I was telling you about he's they have a statue, they have his portrait on the city hall, they have General McAuliffe action figures, that they. So I mean it's's just, I think those stories, like you said, I think they're just waiting to be told and I know that from the, you know, listening to kids and talking to kids, and I was just in three schools in Chicago last week and I mean they're ready for these stories and they want them desperately. Um, we just had to figure out a way to get them to them. 

34:25 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Exactly. I'm going to take you back to Threat of the Spider to close. Okay, if there's one thing you hope that those kids who are hungry for the stories get from this series, what would it be? 

34:42 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
I think it goes back to about. I get asked all the time about theme. You know, what is the theme that runs through your books? What is this book's theme? What is that book's theme? And, honestly, while I'm writing or thinking about it, I don't really think about theme too much. I don't like, not like. Oh great Gatsby here I'm going to put a yellow light at the end of the day. That's Daisy, you know, you're telling a good story. 

35:11
Right? Exactly, I hope. But I was at a conference once and a student like 10, 11 years old asked me what's the theme of your books? And I said and I was new to writing then and I said, you know, I honestly I don't't know, I don't know how to answer that because I don't think about it. And and this librarian, very sweet little librarian, she stood up and she said, oh, balderdash. She actually said balderdash, your books are about friendship and the importance of friendship and what friendship means to us as people. 

35:44
And I was like, okay, that works. And when I start looking at it, especially in my novels, but in all of my novels there is that theme. It's all families that we've chosen, not necessarily the ones that we were given, and I think that that family and friendship, and how much pressure do we allow the outside world, you know, to condense that unit before it starts to crack, or will we ever let it crack? You know, I have a feeling I don't, like I said I don't know what's going to happen all the way, but I have a feeling like Ansel's, not the giving in type, you know I get that feeling from this book. 

36:35
Yeah, I don't think he's going to be capitulating to too much here in the near future. But so it's that. I think it's like what are these themes of togetherness and friendship and, you know, love that we have for one another that carry through these stories? And I, and I thought you know what. I don't know if that librarian was right, but I'm going to go with that. 

37:09
I think it's a great thing to go with and it sounds better than anything I could come up with. 

37:11 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So, and I'm thrilled to have read Threat of the Spider, I can't wait for the next one in the series. But in the meantime, if you haven't started the series yet, it's not too late. You can jump in right now, just like I did, or grab the first one, but I highly recommend you get in on this series. Thank you for joining us today. 

37:25 - Michael P Spradlin (Guest)
I appreciate it very much. Love to come back sometime. 

37:31 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Absolutely. We'll have you back to talk more.