Dr. Crystal Y. Campbell On Celebrating Every Child Through Play-Based Learning and Early Childhood Advocacy

Imagine an early childhood classroom filled with diverse books, engaging play centers, and joyful experiential learning where every child feels seen and valued. How does play-based learning help celebrate the unique strengths each child brings to the classroom? Join us this week as we talk about the importance of early childhood education in setting the stage for a lifetime of critical thinking and creative problem solving with Dr. Crystal Y. Campbell, executive director of Dorchester County First Steps and president of Southern Early Childhood Association (SECA). Dr. Crystal helps us uncover how creating empathetic and dynamic educational environments can help unlock each child's potential and lead to a brighter future for all.

In these challenging and unsettling times, Dr. Crystal shares her insights on the importance of play in education, advocating for environments that foster community, collaboration, curiosity, empathy, and joy. This episode explores how such environments prepare young learners for future success, emphasizing the need for dynamic classrooms and the art of storytelling. We also discuss the impact of early childhood education on societal values and envision an ideal early childhood environment for all kids.

Timestamps:

• 01:41: Advocating for Young Children -- Dr. Crystal Campbell's Adventures in Learning
• 03:37: The Joy of Learning Through Play
• 08:02: Dorchester County First Steps 
• 10:52: SECA (Southern Early Childhood Association)
• 14:27: Building a Strong Foundation with Wonder and Empathy
• 22:30: Unleashing Children's Potential Through Engaging Experiences
• 29:20: Waving a Magic Wand for an Ideal Early Childhood Education Experience: Designing classrooms with diverse resources where we celebrate each child's unique contributions in a joyful, experiential setting.
• 43:22: The Art of Storytelling: Training educators in storytelling to bring multicultural literature to life.
• 46:09: Facing the Realities and Challenges of this Administration: Working as a community to support early childhood education. What diversity, inclusion, and equity really mean -- and why they are more important than ever.
• 52:42: Teaching and Modeling Kindess and Empathy: Shaping values in early education for a more empathetic and just society.
• 55:26: Leaning Into HOPE: Imagining a future where communities work together to overcome divisions.

Links:

Dorchester County First Steps

SECA (Southern Early Childhood Association)

Register for SECA 

Transcript

00:08 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Okay, so I have been looking forward to this conversation for over a year. We have one of the most busy women I know and one of the biggest hearted women I know. On today's show. Know, on today's show, dr Crystal Campbell is one of my heroes. She is such a guiding light in the early childhood world. She is the president of SECA and, more than that, she's the executive director of Dorchester County First Steps, where she is making a difference day-to-day in the lives of families in South Carolina. So you are in for a real treat today as we talk about the issues facing early childhood and the joyful hope we can still take. Crystal, welcome to the show. 

00:55 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Thank you. I love this, Diane. You are such a blessing to me, Such kind words, and I just want to throw them right back at you. I am so thrilled to one have met you and to now be collaborating today on our conversation about my love, one of my loves early childhood. So I appreciate you to the highest, Thank you. 

01:18 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, I'm so glad to have you and I love seeing my three little pigs in your background, and it's just great to be able to do this conversation. So let's start by just giving people a sense of who Dr Crystal Campbell is. Can you share a little bit about your adventures in learning and how you got to where you are today? 

01:41 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
I would love to. One of my colleagues asked me when I became an advocate for young children, or advocate well, she was speaking directly for early childhood and I had to think for a minute and then I remembered it started when I was five and because I have always had this sense of justice and doing the right thing and I would stand up for those that I felt who were being bullied and, you know, dare somebody to mess with my friend or to, you know, if I saw someone who wasn't feeling up to par, I would come and do it. So that love of early childhood, I think, was instilled a long time ago. There was a time, diane, that I wanted to be a pediatric nurse, along with being a lawyer and an actress and all that kind of stuff. 

02:36
I had all of those wonderful things I got to do some of them. I did not actually get to be the lawyer and the pediatric nurse yet, but and I hope to and I have been on stage and and of course I had a captive audience with my children. I taught all ages At least it feels that way Never wanted first grade, but I taught four-year-olds in kindergarten. I cut my teeth with two-year-olds. 

03:06 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I think that's the hardest. 

03:08 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
No, I had a ball and I still have fond memories of those two-year-olds, okay, and I could regale you with stories and I tend to tell a lot of stories, so stop me at any point but I have a story for everything. And I official paying, you know, getting paid for with FICA and all that kind of stuff. I started with fifth grade. Oh wow, and I never, I never wanted. 

03:37
And I remember going in I got hired and as I was preparing, I was sitting in the kitchen with my mom and I looked at her and I said I don't think I can do this. And she looked at me. She said yes, you can, you've always been teaching. I said, yeah, but they're fifth graders. I never wanted to go past third grade. And here I am, getting ready to do fifth graders and she said, well, it's still just teaching. Well, it's still just teaching. And when she said that, it kind of opened up a door and from that moment on, those fifth graders to me, when I looked at them, it was just like kindergarten. I know they were fifth graders, but the same activities and opportunities that I would have done for five-year-olds. They loved it too and excelled in it, and needed it. 

04:26 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
 You know that's huge and that's something I want us to get back to in a few minutes, because I think often we graduate our kids from our early childhood programs and then ask them to go lockstep into school and fifth graders need to play as much as five-year-olds. 15-year-olds need to play, 25-year-olds need to play. 

04:44 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Thank you. 

04:44
I do it in my college classes Me too, I do, you know and I set it up that way as they move, instead of calling it center time like I would in kindergarten, in my fifth grade class, I called it menu, because, you know, I have an affinity for food too. 

05:01 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I like that. 

05:02 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
They would choose, choose from the menu where they wanted to go and what they wanted to do, and the activities and things that I needed to teach were embedded in them. Choosing that menu. 

05:13 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
That's perfect. So fifth grade from fifth grade, where did you go? 

05:19 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Fifth grade. Then I got the opportunity to, because, you know, I had to keep moving because we had a kindergarten teacher at the school and kindergarten teachers tend to, you know, die in their position. They don't leave, yeah, they stay. So I got to go to an area of the state where I was a teacher specialist in kindergarten, so I was helping kindergarten teachers improve their quality, enhance their quality, making it you know what it needed to be and then got the opportunity ultimately to teach kindergarten, to teach four-year-olds, two-year-olds. You know I started with them and I've taught up to eighth grade, sixth, seventh and eighth grade science. Now, that was an eye opener. 

06:12 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I can only imagine. And again, learning through play is so important, with science too. 

06:18 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Exactly, and I had my. I pulled out my best stuff for these sixth, seventh and eighth graders and they would look at me like, okay, big whoop. You know I am excited and they're not. So you know what I had to pray hard on help me know how to reach them. You know and guess what? It ended up being Episodes of MacGyver. I was sitting there and this was during the time that MacGyver was on television regularly and I was watching and I said that's nothing but science, that he was doing A lot of the things he got out of like. I'm thinking of one episode where he had the aluminum foil from the gum wrapper and he used that to start the elevator because the elevator had stopped. That's science. So I would show an episode of MacGyver on Friday that they earned the right to sit and listen to MacGyver, and then the following week we would do activities related to what we watched on MacGyver. Now they're paying attention to me. 

07:22 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
so you hit them where they lived and you gave them practical problem solving opportunities based on something they cared about. 

07:33 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Yeah, I never made a scooter before. That's incredible, all kinds of stuff like that. And I also, you know I enjoy every aspect, every age that I've taught I've loved, so I do. I've taught at the College of Charleston as a senior instructor, all in education, early childhood particularly, and then I currently I still work as an adjunct at the technical schools in our area. 

08:02
So I keep my hand in what is First Steps Dorchester County First Steps. 

08:08
Well, first Steps in Dorchester County is one of 46, because every county has a First Steps office and our mission is to help prepare children birth to age five for school success. That's the main goal. Now, what does that encompass? Well, it encompasses not only helping child care facilities and family providers be the best that they can be as they provide care and encouragement and love and instruction to to the children, but it also encompasses the well-being of the family, and so we look at what the needs are for the families in our community and the ultimate goal for me as the ED is that we give back to the community and the community is stronger, better, wiser. 

09:07
It's not a word, but I make up my own words funner, a great word Because of the pouring into the family and the family pouring back into the community, and we elevate each other as we go along and I try to support the families in whatever capacity they need, and it varies. And our county that's the beauty of First Steps, that every county has a First Steps office and they are doing what helps and supports that county. And every county in South Carolina is different, every last one of them, every last one. 

09:48 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, in each community, just like each child, has unique needs, and when we can address and meet those needs by building relationships and connections, so that it's not doing something to the community but doing it with, how much more powerful is that something? 

10:12 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
That's it, that's it and learning that. You know that thing In my county also. I keep telling those in other places that you're not going to get anywhere if you don't have a gatekeeper in the community. In Dorchester you know and I make it my business to connect with people who can connect me with people and, and and make that work. 

10:29
You know, um, so the the excitement is to do kind of a little bit of everything almost to make sure, um, that they get what they need. Just you know, like parents that call, I may not be able to provide the service, but I know how to find somebody who can and connect them to that person or that group and that's absolutely huge. 

10:52 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And then, from being executive director, you've also been carrying the weight of a regional early childhood association for the last couple of years. Can you talk a little bit about SECA and what your role is with SECA? 

11:05 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Yes, I can, I love SECA. 

11:08 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I know you do. 

11:11 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
It started. I'm going to go way back, ms Diane. Okay, Dr Diane, I'm going all the way back. Are you ready?

11:19 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
 I'm ready. 

11:20 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
It started with lunch. Okay, one of my dear, dear, dear friends as a matter of fact, right now at the technical school, he's my boss his name was dick latham. Dick latham called me one day years ago in excess of 25 and he said let's do lunch. Yay, so we join up. I get in his car and we ride and we ride, and we ride and we ride. I said where are we going for lunch? We end up in Columbia at a SCECA meeting, which is the South Carolina Early Childhood Association meeting. I got lunch. It was great because they were having their meeting right and they were getting new people. He didn't tell me any of this, but I got lunch and I also became membership chair. 

12:12 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Okay, you got voluntold is what I'm hearing. 

12:19 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
I sure did, and that was the beginning of it all. And falling in love with SCECA, learning about SCECA, and then I ultimately became president of SCECA. Don't ask me years, because the years all run together. 

12:36 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
That's. 

12:36 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
OK, but it's been. It's been a minute and from that I became the South Carolina representative on the board for SECA, which is the Southern Early Childhood Association, and did that for six years, rolled off, became a fossil. I think I was a fossil for a year and then, on a fluke, became president. 

13:04
I was a member at large and then it just kind of happened. Then I became president. There's a story behind everything, but I know everybody didn't want to hear the story. Just know that I give all glory to god because I did not plan it. It just happened and um, and I have been so blessed to be the representative for the southern early childhood association, otherwise known as sika, for the past, as their leader for the past two years. I got one more year as a former president. That will come up, but, um, that won't take place until 2026. So right now I am the current president of SECA and I love it. We cover 13 of the 14 states Southern states and everything is alive. Our next conference is going to be in Huntsville. I want to go ahead and put that out there in case people are listening and would love to come to. 

14:04
Huntsville. We is going to be in Huntsville. I want to go ahead and put that out there in case people are are listening and would love to come to Huntsville. We're going to be there. Oh gosh, I'm going to remember the dates it's. I'm not going to remember. I have to look at it. 

14:14 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It's okay, I'm going to post it in the show notes and I have spoken at this conference before and I got to tell you folks it is a charmer People are lovely and you're going to walk away feeling really rejuvenated. 

14:27 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
I hope so, cause that's the goal. And building relationships. That's important to me, building relationships and and connecting and seeing where there's more. We have more in common than we have. That's not, you know and as we walk this walk with early childhood. 

14:44
I often have said that people think they know what to do with children birth to age five because they used to be a child birth to age five. But there's technique and there's a system that works well with that age. A system that works well with that age and it's not just pushing content down on these babies. There is a need, an internal, god-created need, for children to play and to experience and have lots of opportunities for different things to be read to. It is not about letters and letter sounds. I promise you that will come if you put a strong foundation at the bottom. You know you can't build a house on sand and these babies need quality opportunities to play. And I know adult people get all upset because you said the word play, but I don't know one adult who wouldn't want their job to be playful those that are successful in doing what they need to do. There's a passion going on there and that passion has to do with the fact that they love what they're doing and that love what you're doing is play, absolutely and honestly. 

16:02 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
something I've been thinking a lot about from my own experiences in the early childhood classroom is so many of the things that adults need today that would help them in business, in life, in managing the world. All stems from going back and talking to an early childhood educator. If we spent time learning from preschool teachers, we could fix the world right now, because all of the stuff you need to know we taught you in early childhood and we can still teach it to you, because it's all about wonder, curiosity, connection, play and empathy. 

16:43 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Yes. 

16:43 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It's caring about each other and you learn that like these are actual skills that you learn as part of early childhood. You know, it's not when we say play and I'm putting play in quotes right now because, as you said, there are adults who are listening or going play but so much learning goes on in play and we're building so many connections. I mean, you know, think about a block center, for example. When you've got kids in a block center, you've got engineering going on, you've got spatial awareness, you've got computational thinking. You potentially have connections to the real world, especially if you've been reading to them my favorite book being Dreaming Up and you're teaching them about the different architects and giving them people that they can model and build after. 

17:33
So you've got all of that academic content. But you've also got collaboration. You've got critical thinking, you've got problem solving, you've got resilience. It's going to fall down and you're going to have to pick it back up.

17:46 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
 You've got to learn to share, because you might have the best block, ms Crystal, and I'm going to have to figure out how to negotiate with you to get it Exactly and I do take money and my kids would learn that. 

17:59
What can I trade you for Perfect? Yeah, let's talk about it. Diane, I'm going to have to share, you know. 

18:07 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I told you, I share. 

18:09 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Well, in my capacity some years ago as the early childhood coordinator for Dorchester district two in our area, um, I used to travel from school to school and work with the teachers in 4k and kindergarten and first third. Well, one day I was going in between schools and I got stopped on the highway by this gentleman that was standing there with this pole and on the top of this pole it said stop. And I did. And when I stopped, I had a lot going on in my mind that day but it dawned on me you know that man's got a lot of power and all he did was hold that sign out and it said stop. And then, when I did stop and I looked around, I saw another man in one of those. Don't help me, help me when I don't say the right word, but it's the. It's not a dump, it's the, the thing where they pick up the dirt and then they, oh, dump it somewhere like a digger. Right, yeah, he was in one of them and he and he was doing like a bulldozer, yeah. 

19:20
And then over a little bit further away, there was a guy in a little container and he was inside and he was going up and he was cutting branches off the trees. And then I saw another guy. He was down in the ditch with a shovel and he was moving dirt and that kind of stuff. And the first thing that came to mind over in the horizon, sitting off on the side, were a whole bunch of bricks right. And immediately I said that is a live activity center of blocks. 

19:59
Yep, because that's the exact same thing that my children did and are doing in the block area. When you go and get the dump truck or you go and get that shovel or spatula or spoon, you just have to have them do that and you're using it to what? Move the dirt or move the material, or you're taking the bricks, aka, and building the structure, using it so it doesn't fall down, and you know, and the whole idea is to get it as tall as we can get it without it falling. And if it does fall, that's even more joy, because I get to start all over again and try to what build. Here we are with grown men and probably some women too, but I saw the men playing with the same kinds of activity toys whatever that I have with my five-year-olds and four-year-olds in that classroom in the block area. 

20:59
That is why the play is so important and I did a little bit more research. You know that guy that stopped me and then told me he switched it and turned it and said I could go and he was talking on his walkie and all that kind of stuff. They get paid big bucks. Just thought I'd share. That's good to know, because I wasn't once. She gets paid just to stand there and turn that sound. You know that's all I had to do and talk on the phone. You know the walkie-talkie. 

21:28
I love when those kinds of experiences happen because it sets the stage for what they're going to do in life. Um, and it has nothing to do with gender really either, because another time one of my little girls only wanted to play in blocks and it got to the point where the deal was I need you to go to another center because I wanted her to be well-rounded. I need you to go to another center for about 15 minutes and then the blocks are yours and we made that kind of a agreement. But that little girl and I won't say her name because y'all might know her, but that little girl now is an architect. 

22:10
That's amazing, because I follow a good many of my children had that skill even then Mm-hmm, even then, when you have something as a passion, it's our job and obligation as teachers to nurture that thing and help shape it so that it can propel them to greatness, and help shape it so that it can propel them to greatness 100%. 

22:30 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And every little child who comes through our doors, no matter what their background is, they are truly a beacon of hope and they are a container of so much potential. And it takes a solid village, including high quality early childhood, for every child to uphold and recognize that potential. And you're showing possibilities, you're offering invitations to play and to explore and to try out different roles, and it's the same thing with the books that we share. 

23:08
You know, that's the whole importance of windows and mirrors and sliding glass doors in the books we share is we're giving kids all of these possibilities to see themselves, and the more possibilities you have to see yourself and to see others, the broader your world is. 

23:24 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
The broader your world, that's it. Broader your world, that's it, the more opportunities you see and the differences that are necessary to see that we're not all the same. And as an educator, it's my job to find what that baby because every child that comes across my threshold is bringing their A game. Their parents are sending the best that they got right and they walk through those doors and they have their own thing inside that is supposed to be nurtured and strengthened and along with what I know they're going to need as a foundation. So we come together and we provide that for the children and get them ready for the world that they're going to encounter. 

24:12
One of my major goals as an educator was that. You know I am humble I really am, but I love what I do, okay, and what I wanted. Those babies I want. In case they didn't get somebody like me, in case their teacher wasn't like me, I wanted to build in them the intuitiveness, if you will, the opportunity, the ability, the knowledge and wisdom of them, so that they would still do like I would do, even though that I'm not their teacher any longer. I wanted that kind of success. If they walked into my classroom as an introvert, they were an extrovert by the time they left because all the power, all of the opportunity I put back on them. It wasn't me doing the learning, the classroom yeah, that was my classroom, but it was their classroom and their world. So they had to make the decisions about what would come in. I would purposely come in and it didn't matter the age. I still do it. Now They'll come and say what are we going to do today? I say I don't know. 

25:22
I did know, but I would always say I don't know I have no clue what we're going to do today. What do you want to do today? How are we going to do this? What are we going to do? Those are the kinds of things that I shared with them and had them. 

25:36 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
they created the world you know, Yep, and I think some of the best teaching moments that I can remember were things where it was co-created or it was led by the children and you know they. They asked the question and I think I've said this to you before my answer, if I didn't know, the answer was let's find out together. And by taking that kind of exploration, we still got the letter sounds in, we still got the numbers, we still got the science content. I mean, it all happened, but I might have packaged it differently. So if I've got kids who want to know about butterflies, then doggone it. 

26:14
We're gonna wrap it all in butterflies and we're gonna become a butterfly, yeah, and and do all of the things that go along with it. 

26:24 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Uh, I had, I had a baby one time who was looking this was a four-year-old and I forget what we were originally were looking for. But I had said I don't know. And I went over to the computer and I said stand. And he was standing right behind me and I'm looking, going through pictures, and he says and I said, okay, what? And he went back to a picture of, um, the submarine. Okay, now, mind you, I was teaching in the tri-county area, the beach is what? Four or five miles away and this kind of stuff, and I used to teach on the beach. So I know that this happened. My baby had never seen a submarine. Well, you know, I had to go build, get one and build it and make sure that he had a submarine. 

27:13
So the very next day we were painting up a refrigerator box and creating submarine and and the the others who hadn't gotten the bug yet cause he really did they were making the pictures of the whales and the sea life that we would see out of the porthole of that submarine I love it I had to get a, a periscope, of course. 

27:37
So I researched it to figure out how to do a periscope and I got all the material together and said, okay, we're going to make this periscope. The janitor at the school and the um guidance counselor at the school got involved with it as well, because both of them said that they knew everything about it because they were in the marine, in the, in the navy love it so they came in to take over making this periscope with the children, can you imagine. 

28:03
And then we had, and then I decided, well, we got to eat food related to this thing. So I had them making a dip that was going to we're going to pretend it was the ocean, and then I got the little whale cookies and we and they didn't like the um, they didn't like the dip but they tried it and you gave them. 

28:28 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
You gave them an invitation exactly. 

28:31 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
They had the invitation and then that was one of the more popular center time activities and it was outside and unfortunately we really only could see the sky. But every now and then birds would go by or something would happen and they would get excited about it. Um. But, that's what. That's what the learning is. Listen, as old as I am now, that still gives me the chills when I think about my baby's doing that one. That's just one of thousands of things, you know. 

29:02 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Exactly so, knowing you've been doing this for years. If you could wave your magic wand right now and ensure that sort of the ideal early childhood experience was available to every kid, what would go into curating that experience? 

29:23 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
First thing would be helping the teachers catch the vision and knowing that they don't have to have all of the answers, that we can research the answers and we just have to have a willingness to get out of the box. Okay, that classroom would be full of wonderful books and resources. It would have every kind of center, from blocks to home living to manipulatives to the computer, and I got stories for every last one of those. And I want there to be lots of variety, because one day it might be the kitchen, but the next day it might be a beauty parlor or it might be a farm with real vegetables coming out and everything. 

30:09
I would see that every child would be celebrated for what they bring to the table, every child. I'm going to know that child and know that family so well that I'm going to make sure that what they need to propel them to greatness is there, and I use that term a lot because that's what I see in them. You know, I could look at my children and say you know, they're going to be an awesome we talked about this earlier CEO of a 500 fortune, five fortune company or whatever, or, or to be president, or, or, or to be the doctor, the lawyer or the mommy with the children and knowing what to do and instilling their children to make sure that they were. Did you know every class had a mama? 

30:59
oh yeah, every class had a mama. But in addition to the material and that kind of stuff, I want an atmosphere of experiential learning. I want an atmosphere of experiential learning, I want an atmosphere of curiosity, I want an atmosphere of fun and laughter and joy. And I want my classroom and it's always been this way, diane that on Saturday morning they get mad with their parents because they forgot to get them up to catch the bus or get to school and be with Miss Crystal. 

31:38 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
That was always the best. 

31:40 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
I agree, that's what I want. When the kids I was usually there until 6.30, 7 o'clock at night and a lot of them wanted to stay because we were still learning, we were still having fun. It's this is a nonstop kind of situation. You know, my godson just came to the door a few seconds ago but I told him to wait for a minute. But he's in there playing and I can hear a Beyblade sliding across the floor right now, sliding across the floor right now. 

32:23
So what are some of the biggest issues that are keeping us from that vision? People wanting to do to children, to do unto children, instead of allowing children to be children for a little while longer. You know there's that opportunity and we're not all going to see it because you can't open up the tops of their heads and actually see it. But every opportunity, every experience, everything that that child does is wiring the brain and causing it to be a lifelong way of thinking. You know, and I'm seeing a lot of people who suffer from not knowing, being lonely in the midst of a whole bunch of people, having. You know what we're calling now and putting into mental health issues, issues around what we've called ACEs, and there's a lot of conversation. I can have a whole bunch of conversations about all of that, but the bottom line is, whatever we do, from neonatal to age five and maybe even beyond, but definitely by five, because in my world it goes up to eight, but up until then, guess what? That's setting the stage for the rest of their life. 

33:34 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Absolutely it sets the stage you know, and I think you're right to extend it to eight, because I think that we that's part of the problem is we cut it off like it's arbitrary, that age five you're good to go, and five, six, seven, eight still needs to play as you and I said earlier, so do middle school, high schoolers, adults. 

33:57
We all need it. But we really need to create that climate of joyful learning, because kids grow on their own timetables and it takes some longer to learn to read and to write and to do the math, but they're still learning and they need to feel valued and to have opportunities to explore and to fall down and to succeed. 

34:21 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
And to keep testing things till it either works. Or they find that, okay, I've got to adapt this somehow or make this look a little different and capitalize on their strengths. Or they find that, okay, I've got to adapt this somehow or make this look a little different and capitalize on their strengths. Stop talking about the deficits. And they can't do this. And you know what piece of research that really bugs me. I hope this doesn't cause your program not to come on anymore. No, I don't pay attention to it, but I'm real. You know what piece of research aggravates me to no end? That piece of research that says if you're not reading by the time you're in the third grade, that you're going to end up in jail. I've got a problem with that. Yeah, I agree. And there is this thing called self-fulfilling prophecy, that because you speak it out of your mouth, guess what? There are forces out there that cause that kind of thing to happen. That child's thinking, and they're hearing it. You know, and I think too you know, the learning how to read deal has been around for a long, long time. And Diane, you and I learned how around for a long long time. And Diane, you and I learned how, and and we, the other children, will learn how they've made learning to read such a scientific bunch of mess and I'm sorry there's so many pieces to it when it's all really read to me. 

35:46
Let's talk about the book and help me understand what's going there and comprehend what's in the reading, because calling out the words is one thing. There are lots of children that can call out words they really can, all right, but can they understand what they're reading? Because that's what I'm going to give you another example I have a good friend who's head of hr at boeing in our area, and she told me some years ago that there were a lot of people losing the job because they couldn't comprehend the manual for putting the fact the plane together. Now that was striking to me, because the manual is written on an eighth grade level. Can they read the words? 

36:32
Sure, they could. They read the words, but they couldn't comprehend it. So what good is reading if you don't understand what you are reading? We've got a whole bunch of people right now that are not walking and being critical thinkers. I want my children to be critical thinkers. I want them to know the difference between an opinion, the fact and truth, because all three of those are different and help them, provide with them the opportunity to what? To know the difference and be able to identify the difference and then live knowing the truth. 

37:10 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I think you hit it. You know you said earlier it's about laying the foundation and you know reading. I do like the idea of strands of literacy, that you know we're connecting all of these things, but I think what's happened is we've gone so far and we've seen it in our careers the pendulum swings and we've gone so far into thinking about phonics and phonemic awareness that we've forgotten the strand which has to start with the joy, and it's the read to you, it's the spending time with it and you can teach those things within that. You know, for me, one of the things that frustrates me is I've had students who are so caught up in their canned curriculums that they're handed and packaged that it's structuring for you exactly what you're supposed to do every moment and scripting it. And what falls to the wayside is the joy of reading. The joy, just the love, and the love of reading. 

38:10
And I think that you know I always, with my little guys, we would do reading in the morning, we would read in circle time, we read during snack. I was always available on the floor during playtime. If somebody wanted a story, you know, I'd bring a book in. They had free reading time because we would rotate. You know, I see all your books behind you, you see all mine behind me. We had bookshelves in every classroom, in every center and we rotated the books to go thematically so that they got that visceral experience of holding a book in their own hands. And we created books like we made our own books. The kids were authors and those books got published, sent home to their families, but also enshrined in our school library so that they can check out their own work. You know all of that into it and it's part of building that joy that comes with reading. And then, as you said, the critical thinking piece you know so much of the way our education system is set up is. 

39:12
It's set up to a paradigm that worked a hundred years ago, when you were sending people into factories and put in this widget. Put in this widget or, you know, follow this specific path. That's not the world we live in today. 

39:29
No, and it's not the world our babies are going to inherit. So to me it's so much more important to be focused on what's going to help you collaborate effectively with the humans around you. Creative problem solvers be critical thinkers. Creative problem solvers be critical thinkers. Be willing to take risks. There you go, innovate like if we can do those things and communicate, because you have to be able to talk and write share. 

39:58
Those to me are the skills that we're really preparing them for, and the other stuff should be packaged around that, not the other way around, not the other way around, not the other way around. 

40:07 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
I taught every, you know every child that left me, no matter what the age. They knew how to read and they knew how to comprehend, and I did it primarily through their writing. When they would make their own book or write about an experience or write, you know, they would draw the people depending on what level they were on and, um, sometimes they would dictate it to me and I would actually write the words and and that kind of thing. But the creativity and the outlet for creative expression, it was just phenomenal. Um, I'm thinking of one year with some four-year-olds. 

40:46
We started in August, that first day, because I've always done that, and we spend like 40 minutes, sometimes an hour, creating stories and writing stories. And when I first started with this group, 10 minutes in, and they said my hand hurts, we're not going to do this any longer, you know. And so I had to revamp and go back and we had to do the strengthening, you know, the SECA development for the fine motor, and get those, those fingers, strong enough to hold the utensils that they were using for sustained the make a long story short. This was in august, august 19th. I started this before christmas. These guys were when they were saying things to me like this because I would spend that time right. This was in August, august 19th. I started this before Christmas. These guys were when they were saying things to me like this because I would spend that time right before lunch and it would be time to go to lunch and they said, well, we'll eat later. I got to finish my story. 

41:40
That went for five minutes, yeah, and it's all because I put those activities in that would help strengthen. And then we played, we read good literature, rich literature. I brought it to life, you know, we acted it out, they acted it out, I acted it out. I sang some of the books, okay, I remember doing. I know an old lady who swallowed a fly, but it was another version of it. 

42:11
And I was making that up and I was making it up as we were cleaning up Diane cleaning up the room and I was singing it and making it up as I was doing and when I got through they clapped and then they said do it again. I said I can't. 

42:24 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Right. 

42:28 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
I don't remember what I just did. I said you guys, come and make it out with me and sing with me. Those are the kinds of experiences our babies need in order to propel them again to greatness. There's greatness in all of our children. Stop letting people and I don't know who I'm speaking to but stop letting people speak negatively over these children. They come with a wealth of knowledge and wisdom and ideas and just the ability to do a lot of good stuff, and it's our job to direct it and to nurture it and to strengthen it and to fix it and direct it. Don't make it do what it's supposed to do, you know? Yep, can I make another analogy please, before we hang up? And I've been sharing this I do a lot of training in the area and stuff, so I I train all the time and I told him. 

43:22
I said have you noticed how easily our children learn profanity? Have you ever noticed that? Have you ever thought about that? They hear certain words at home or on television, preferably not at school, but they can come into the school world and use those words and use it in context. If those words can be learned and and this is the philosophy according to crystal in the world that they know it, they can use it and identify. They can't spell it, but they can use it. They understand the context because there's emotion attached to it. And those same words that we know they need to know for appropriate reading, those sight words, those words that are about the room, the door, the, you know, the chair, all of those wonderful words, guess what? They can learn those as well and identify those words and be able to use those words in context when we attach it to emotion. And that's what we do when we read, it's not just reading the book, it's reading the book. 

44:42 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And living the book yeah, book and living in a book yeah, you have to be willing to make yourself silly and not worry about it, because the kids love it and they engage with you. I think every early childhood, every education program needs a component of learning how to read aloud and storytell effectively. 

45:06 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
And it's strong. Yeah, in my world of getting trained, I knew it already, but we did have a course like that and we spent the entire semester reading children's literature, bringing it to life and really reading it, not just knowing that it existed, you know, really really taking it. And we can't judge books by the cover either. 

45:36 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
You have to really read the book in order to understand what's going on and why and also recognize that just because something is the book you've loved and used for 30 years in teaching, it's not necessarily the book that that baby sitting in front of you needs, and there is always a book that's going to be the right book. 

45:53
You just have to keep introducing and trying and that's where the importance of rich, diverse literature comes in, because you're going to share books from all kinds of cultures. 

46:04
You're going to share from all kinds of authors, all kinds of genres, so you're going to have non from all kinds of cultures. 

46:09
You're going to share from all kinds of authors, all kinds of genres, so you're going to have nonfiction and poetry and realistic fiction and fantasy, folk tales, all of that, and somewhere along the line you're going to engage that kid and you may never know, because that's the other thing about what we do is we get them for this very short window, but we're planting seeds and seeds are what matter. So the last question for you for today and I want to bring you back on because this has been so much fun for me but thinking about the struggles that are real for early childhood programs right now, you know, between a administration that is on the warpath against diversity, equity and inclusion, budget cuts, funding grants that we don't know are there, Head Start, Imperial these are all realities that teachers are living with and there's a huge uncertainty right now. Lots, how do we help those teachers and those families and those programs? What are some things we can do as a community to continue to support some of the most important educators we have. 

47:38 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
One and I've been saying this as president of SECA and in my capacity as ED for Dorchester with all the other EDs and in life is that, if it were, if it was the right thing to do prior to our current situation, it's still the right thing to do. It's still important to care for children as individuals. It is still I can't even emphasize it enough for us to care about each other and we learn that birth to five. Okay, you don't pop out knowing empathy. It's a learned skill. Yes, it's a learned skill to care about somebody else Because, when it's all said and done, we are all human, yes, and we have faults. We have good things. We again look at what's good and do what's right. Our children not only those that are typically developing, but even those who may have differing needs developing, but even those who may have differing needs We've got to teach every child individually, because every child deserves that. Every child and when I say child now, it's going beyond just early childhood, of course Every child has a strength and then that child grows up to be an adult still got strength, they've got an idea, they've got something there's, there's always something in them. That's great and we need to you know, and let that happen. 

49:17
The diversity is unnatural because we're all different. I have two siblings. Okay, we, we're all girls. We are so different from each other, yes, but the commonality is that we have a love of God. We have loved our parents. We love, you know, eating. You know that's the common thing. We got that, that, that thing, but we're all and we're all doing something different, and that doesn't make it better or worse, it just makes it different, and that different should be celebrated. 

49:56
I need to know that when I go into a place and you're there and whatever you're doing in that place, I have the opportunity to do it as well. That's where that equity piece comes in. Where it's equal to this, I get the same opportunity. I won't be disqualified for it because I'm full figured. I'm not going to be disqualified for it because my hair is gray. I'm not going to be disqualified for it because my hair is gray. I'm not going to be disqualified for it because I wear glasses. Do you see what I'm saying? I see exactly what you're saying, that I can't control. You know that I don't. 

50:39 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Things outside your control don't keep you from opportunity. 

50:42 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Exactly. That shouldn't limit me from being a part and wanting to do it, and even if it goes against what you think we should be doing, that's your problem. I still should have the opportunity to do that, and I may be different, but I still need to be included. I still need to be a part. When I got my class together, one of the one is creating the environment so that we all love each other because we're all in this together. 

51:15
We all got to get out of kindergarten. We all have to get out of sixth grade. Science. We have to get out of. You know what I mean. That's the commonality. We're going to work together to propel everybody where they need to be, and I'm not going to leave unless I reach back and pull you. If you're back there and don't you leave me, reach up and grab me so we can go because we're all going together. Wouldn't it be wonderful if our world right now loved everybody and we didn't pigeonhole people into certain categories or look down on folk because they didn't have or do it the way that we do it? Those behaviors are learned and those learned behaviors are going to be the detriment to us all as an existence, as human beings to be the detriment to us all as an existence, as human beings, and that's where we have to return back to our early childhood roots because, as you said at the start, that's where we learn it. 

52:18 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It's harder for adults to make those changes, but it can still be done, done. 

52:25 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
It is, and we have to have a desire and a want to. 

52:28 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Yes. 

52:30 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
You know you've got to do that and I know we have. Back in the day, my dad used to use a term called dog eat dog. It was a dog eat dog world. 

52:40 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Yep. 

52:42 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Well, guess what? If we do it right, all the dogs get to eat. I like that, you know, and it used to bug me, and I don't. You know another term. I don't like the have and the have-nots. Everybody should have, yeah, and have to the ability that they can do what they can do, and, and, and it bothers me, and if I had to fix something, if I could use my magic wand to fix something, I think that would be the biggest. That we care enough about everybody on this planet, that we help each other get to where we need to be, cause it doesn't hurt. And you know, there's another, there's a four letter word. I'm going to use it, you ready? Yeah, Four letter word Be kind. Yes, be kind. It is not good. We want to teach our children how to be kind so that the connections in the brain already set that. That's my, my kindness connection, kindness connections kicking in, and I'm going to make sure that my friends have a friend and I'm being kind to the people around me. 

54:08 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And that's where empathy and kindness walk hand in hand in creating that better, more just society for everybody. 

54:20 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
Yeah, it would be. I get excited thinking about the possibility of that kind of like. You know I'm not political at all, but I did make a comment one time. I'm going to share it with. You can cut it out, if it doesn't work, I'm okay with that. But it I said I bet you a good many, if not all of our people in Congress and in the politics, I bet you they didn't go to kindergarten. We need to go back and research this, because if they had gone to kindergarten I think they'd be nicer to each other. 

54:57 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It does make you wonder what their early childhood experience, or lack thereof, was. I've had the same thought. I think it would be an interesting research study. 

55:07 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
I think so too but you know, I'm okay with it. But that, that was one of the things I said. You know, let's just be nice. 

55:16 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
All right, dr Crystal, I have one final question for you, because I'd like to end with this one what brings you hope? 

55:26 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
What brings you hope? Okay, the first hope is in God. I know that my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, is going to take care of all those things that concern me. That's my biggest hope, and I pray that I get to see him turn that around so we all do love and care and are kind about. The other hope that I have is for people like you who think enough of our career and our ability, especially with early childhood, to bring it to life and open it up so that more people can learn about what it really is and how it works. That's my hope. My hope is for those of us, and what gives me hope is that we're not being silent. We're talking and we're sharing and we're letting people know what's right with regards to early childhood and everything else. But we're focusing on early childhood and I think if we get it right there, if we get it right in the beginning, the rest of it will fall in place and we wouldn't see some of the things that we're seeing now. That's my hope. 

56:42 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
That's a good hope. Dr Crystal Campbell, thank you so much for joining us on the Adventures in Learning podcast. We will not let another year go by without having you back. Thank you for being on the program. It has been so much fun talking to you today. 

56:58 - Dr Crystal Y Campbell (Guest)
It's been fun talking to you too, and I hope I did okay for you. You know I love this. I've never done a podcast before, so thank you for allowing me to have the opportunity.