Troubling Tonsils: Creepy Fun for Older Readers with the Award-Winning Duo Peter Brown and Aaron Reynolds

Step into a world where humor and horror dance together in perfect harmony. Join the award-winning author/illustrator duo of Aaron Reynolds and Peter Brown as we dive into the eerie yet delightful tale behind their new book for older readers -- Troubling Tonsils. Maturing fans of the Creepy Carrots, Creepy Pair of Underwear, and Creepy Crayon picture books will love this new chapter book series that evokes the nostalgic chills of "The Twilight Zone" while offering elementary readers a safe and thrilling haven to face their fears. (This reader dreamt of globs and glands after staying up late to finish the book!)

Chapters:

1:03: A Delightfully Creepy Collaboration

5:10: Safe Darkness: Mixing Creepy Themes and Nostalgic Call Backs for a Fun Reading Experience

10:09: Picking the Distinctive Color Palattes for the Creepy Books

14:05: Expanding and Growing the Creepy Picture Books Into a Chapter Book Series for Older Readers 

20:14: Sneak Peek at Unsettling Salad and Yarn Is Everything, plus the recently published Wild Robot On The Island picture book and why Aaron is currently in full creepy mode

27:56: Hope in writing for kids and unlocking the human imagination

Links:

Explore more about Aaron Reynolds and Peter Brown

Order Troubling Tonsils and preorder Unsettling Salad 

Order Creepy Carrots, Creepy Pair of Underwear, and Creepy Crayon

Subscribe for more enchanting discussions and creative insights. If you enjoyed this episode, leave a review and share it with fellow book lovers. And let us know what you think about this creepy read!

Transcript

00:02 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I have been looking forward to today's interview for quite a while. I fell in love with the wild robot, along with many of you, years ago. I love nerdy birdie and back of the bus and I really loved creepy underwear and creepy carrots. And we have Peter Brown and Aaron Reynolds here with us today to talk about their brand new venture into the chapter book world Troubling Tonsils, which I have to tell you, is the most satisfyingly creepy read for the early years. I read it the other night and probably shouldn't have read it late at night because I wound up dreaming about globs and glands. Thank you so much for that and welcome to the show Peter and Aaron. 

00:52 - Peter Brown (Guest)
Thanks for having us. 

00:55 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So you two are so successful in your own right. What brought you together to create this series? 

01:05 - Peter Brown (Guest)
Aaron, I want to step in here and say because we this is going back a ways we've had this relationship now, for our first book came out 13 years ago, 2012. Right, was that the creepy? 

01:16 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
care was it? 

01:16 - Peter Brown (Guest)
2012. I have to check the copyright it's that long that's crazy, I think it. 

01:22
So, you know, I just remember getting this manuscript At the time the first one was called Evil Carrots the first draft, or first draft I saw and it just blew my mind because it was first of all. It was like nothing I would have ever written myself, which was what was so appealing to me. It was like wacky and weird and different and I immediately saw images that reminiscent of like the Twilight Zone in my mind, my imagination, you know. So Aaron's words kind of captured my interest, and which is saying something, because I was. You know, I get manuscripts submitted somewhat regularly and I usually say no, almost always, but for this one I was like, yes, let's do this. And so that's where the whole thing got started, how Aaron came up with the whole concept that led to this new series. You know I'll let you answer that, aaron. 

02:08 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
Well, there's actually a little, a little backstory just prior to that that I don't even know if you know, Pete. So so I wrote what was then called evil carrots and my agent started sending it out to publishers and it was widely rejected it was. We got things back from editors that were like this is weird, this is not a kid's book who hurt you? Like, um, yeah, it was. It was widely misunderstood by a good many editors. I remember that very clearly. And then it wound up with our editor at Simon Schuster and he immediately got it and it's like that. 

03:03
That's the click you want, because I don't always write stuff that everyone immediately gets. So, like nerdy birdie was similar and carnivores carnivores is a very dark picture book, but it, it, it also was, just not everyone could see it. And Justin over at Simon Schuster immediately got it and he said this is amazing, this is dark and weird and funny in all the right ways. And then it's serendipity, because check me on this if I'm wrong, peter, but I think you had done you mentioned that you don't really illustrate other people's stuff um, but this was, like you said, about 12 years ago and I think you had just done another, illustrated another picture book with simon schuster for another author that's right. 

03:58 - Peter Brown (Guest)
Yeah, and um kangaroo, yeah yeah, that's right. 

04:01 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
Michael ian black is that right? 

04:03 - Peter Brown (Guest)
Yeah. 

04:03 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
And, and so you had done that and it was. I don't know what the circumstances were, but you had done it when they had done that deal with you. They made it into a two book deal for that one and then some other untitled thing, and I don't remember if it was originally supposed to be with that author or it was just like we just want to have you in the bag for another one. Um, and so our editor immediately said this has got to be peter, this has got to be peter, and we actually have him on the hook for a contract for another one. So if he's excited about it then, uh, I could see that would be a fantastic. So there was a lot of good serendipity there. It winding up with simon schuster, them being one of the few editors that really got it, and then peter happening to have an open contract with them right in justin's mind, and him seeing the magic of the fit, and everything kind of fell together from there. 

05:05 - Peter Brown (Guest)
Yeah, good memory. Wow, yeah, you got it, right. 

05:09 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And you were saying that adults don't necessarily get the humor or struggle to get the vision initially. But I know from working with kids that has not been the situation at all. Kids get it immediately and really gravitate to sort of that sense of safe darkness. Because I think as a teacher and as a parent kids know the dark places and it's nice to have a place where you know you can sort of hit the flashlight and it's pretend but you can work out some of those fears. What has been the response from kids to your work? Like, what have you all gotten? Because I assume doing author illustrator visits you get to hear back from kids about how they feel about this. 

05:54 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
Yeah, kids get it, and that's the thing is. When I wrote it I knew even though the adults weren't, I knew the kids would get it. This is a kid's book and I think some of the inherent magic um is, for me personally anyway is the great counterpoint between the story, which is weird, and it is a little dark at times and only gets darker with the chapter books. I mean they get weird and strange. And, diane, you haven't even read the next two that are in the pipeline for it. I mean they get weird, I can't wait to hear. 

06:35
I'm very excited. But Peter has this amazing Don't me to put words on it, but I'm just going to give my impression of it. There is this timeless, classic, almost nostalgic quality that is at once comforting and edgy, and I mean it makes me think of things like Babar, um, you know, back back in the classic pantheon, and, and so I think there is this amazing counterpoint between my story and peter's art, where you've got this weird, strange could be taken a really dark direction, and then Peter's stuff manages to somehow soften it ever so slightly without it losing any of the edge, and to me that's some of its magic yeah, I think I was a decision. 

07:37 - Peter Brown (Guest)
That was something I was pretty conscious about when I was developing the style for the first book, creepy Carrots was the weirdness of the story felt like it would be received in a whole new way if it was delivered in this kind of classic package, this sort of not familiar but like you know, because at the time you didn't see a whole lot of black and white fully illustrated books, obviously with the one color. But I thought if I could harken back to kind of the good old days of like Leave it to Beaver and the Twilight Zone, these shows that kind of make us feel a little warm and fuzzy, maybe not so much the Twilight Zone, but you know, leave it to Beaver and that kind of thing. They kind of they give us a sort of feeling of comfort, even if you don't know what. Leave it to Beaver is that kind of visual vocabulary we absorb from various references in popular culture. And I just thought, you know, if we were to do this like that, if we were to make it feel like some old timey show, that could really kind of twist the weirdness in a whole new direction, a direction that would be at times spooky and dark, because there's literal darkness, there's a lot of black on the page and shadows and you know, kind of spooky, mystery, mysterious things going on. So there's that aspect, but there's also that comfort that comes along with these old-timey shows, right. So there's that aspect, but there's also that comfort that comes along with these old timey shows, right. So walking that line, I think, is what Aaron was doing with his writing and what I tried to do with the artwork and feels like it's worked. 

09:19
And the first book was really the experiment. And then I feel like we kind of, you know, and not to pat myself on the back or anything, but I ended up getting the call to kind of honor, right. So we were like, oh, this is people, this is good People like this, like what else you got Aaron? You got more ideas and he absolutely did, you know, and so then we kind of hit our stride with creepy pair of underwear and creepy crayon, and so I feel like we've we've got all this momentum and now we've got this whole new spinoff series, jasper Rabbit's Creepy Tales and I feel like it's just where now we're just kind of flying in a good way, you know, like Aaron's got his thing figured out, and I've got my thing figured out and we're just, we're just, we're just having fun, you know, and you know, and it's been really cool well, the fun is really clear with it. 

10:09 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
You know, I was going to ask before we jump into the new book um, you know, as you've done the picture books, you've had, as you said, a very distinctive palette in the way that you do the art. You've got the, the black and white, and then there's the one color. How do you go about deciding, sort of which color is the color for that particular book? 

10:29 - Peter Brown (Guest)
Well, you know, for the first book it sort of was self-evident orange If we're going to pick a color it should be the color of the sort of menacing characters, right, the carrots, the creepy carrots. And orange made sense. It's, you know, color closely associated with carrots. Kids understand it instantly. It all kind of made sense. And then, once we got that out of the way, we went on to the second book, creepy Pair of Underwear spooky kind of glowy green kind of worked. For that I might have played around with a glowy blue color at one point, but green felt more identifiable as like a spooky, glowing color. So that came pretty easily. 

11:18
And then, when it came to the third book, creepy Crayon, you know, if you look on a color wheel, the sort of secondary colors between the primary colors, you know there's yellow, red, blue between the primary colors. You know there's yellow, red, blue in the primary colors and then there's orange, green and purple on the secondary colors. And I thought, well, let's just complete the color wheel. And so for me the crayon, having the crayon be purple, made a lot of sense. And now we're in this whole new world where, you know, we've got three new chapter books coming out and I've kind of thrown the color wheel stuff out the window a little bit now and now I'm just kind of having fun deciding what feels right, what looks, what satisfies my artistic needs at the time and what works with the story. But that's how I decided on the colors for the first three picture books. 

12:05 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
I think it's worth mentioning. Sorry to interrupt. No go ahead, mentioning that this was never planned as a series. 

12:16
I really saw this as a one-off and honestly never expected it to have the success it did. So when it did so well and the editor was like, yes, more please. And Peter was like yes, more please. At first I was very hesitant, but I realized very quickly that there are some key components in the language we've created, both visually and in the storytelling that has to do with you know. One of those was that it is black and white and one color, um, which carries now into the chapter books, even though we've never had a discussion about it. 

12:56
That's just, that is the language of the series. Um, it has to have a twist ending. That that became very clear, um, so there were certain elements of it. The creepy thing couldn't be a living thing. To me, that was very important, because kids are always like hey, do creepy dog, or creepy I'm like no, no, no, let's see, that's not ridiculous because there are creepy. It has to be ridiculous, it has to be equal parts creepy and funny and absurd, the kind of magical alchemy that happens in moments like this, as you're creating with somebody else, even though you're not even sitting in the same room with one another. We kind of in an unspoken way, began to create language with visually and storytelling that is now embedded in the DNA. 

14:05 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
That makes so much sense. And so you've moved from the world of picture book into sort of this chapter book where it really does feel like a standalone episode of the Twilight Zone, Like you know. It gives you a little bit more space to tell the story, to flesh it out, to have little chapters, to sort of fill it out. What led to this and how did you move from Jasper the rabbit to our latest protagonist? 

14:36 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
Yeah, it, it. It really started with kids downright demanding more creepy and and me wrestling with that. Because on one hand I'm I'm certainly open to doing more picture books and where Jasper is the victim or is he, is he the you know, is he the antagonist? But but there was that part of me that was like how far can you take that Like this poor rabbit? How many more things can go supernaturally weird for this one poor bunny? So, while that is is open, I don't feel like that's got an infinity finish line, like that, that that there's only so much you can do before you're like, okay, give the rabbit a break, please, give the rabbit a break, please. 

15:35
Um, but I loved the idea of him joining the joke, of him becoming part of the storytelling, of him as the expert at this point in all things creepy, a little older, a little wiser, being able to show up as the master of ceremonies or the host of a whole new series with his stories that he wants to now drop on the reader, and that just freed up all kinds of things. 

16:01
That meant I could speak to a slightly older audience who grew up reading the picture books. It meant that I could go creepier, which is a line I really have to walk carefully with the picture books. So so carefully, yeah. And because of the decision to make them standalone stories that are being narrated by Jasper, tied together by Jasper as a narrator, it meant infinite possibilities. I mean and that's one of the things that I'm so excited about this series is I've got so many ideas for stories that if they were locked into happening to Jasper, they just wouldn't work. But because that's not the case, anything goes, it's, it's. It's a wide open field now and I love that. 

16:52 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So why tonsils? 

16:57 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
I don't know, I honestly don't know. 

17:00 - Peter Brown (Guest)
It's when I read the story, when I read the manuscript for Troubling Tonsils the first time, I think my jaw might have hung open a few times and I was like, oh my gosh. I was like, wow, are we going to get away with this? This is weird. This is like we're definitely ratcheting up the creepiness. I mean tonsils. Once you start going down that road, man, things get weird fast, you know. So at first I was kind of perplexed when I saw the title Troubling Tonsils. I was like I don't know about this, but I should have known better because of course Aaron knows what he's doing. And then I I started reading it. I was like wow, that is yes, that is. That is a great way to sort of introduce readers to this whole new series is with a real bang, because these little guys are messed up. I mean, you know, you know it's funny, like Aaron's so great at balancing funny and absurd with creepy, so I don't want to over emphasize the creepiness. 

18:03 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It's funny too, which is why it works um I did think, though, this was one that I probably wouldn't have read aloud to my three-year-old when she had her tonsils taken out. 

18:12 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
No, and that's I think that's important is I wanted them to feel like stories for older kids. These, this is not um. I have read creepy carrots, creepy prayer of underwear, the picture books. I have read them to more groups of kids than I can count, thousands upon thousands, upon thousands. And um. Only one time did a kid cry um and that and that. That was a very young kid and the circumstances were very specific. Mom, mom had stepped away and I did a moment, and then the kid liked it, but then was like grabbing, reaching out for mom, and then realized mom wasn't there and then but it was more about that. 

18:54 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I was going to say that's not on you, Aaron. 

18:56 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
Yeah, no, I feel like that's not on me, right, mom, don't walk away. We're telling a creepy story, um, but these stories needed to feel to that, to that fourth grader like this is for me. 

19:11 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
This is not we're not messing around now. There's not baby stuff anymore. This is this. So they're not. They're not for three-year-olds. Um, whereas I'll stand by, uh, the picture books, as though those are good for three-year-olds all day long. But no, no, these are very strategically written for that older elementary kid

19:51 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
Yea. 

19:52 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And it includes those words that are just so much fun to say, like globs and glands, and you know, kids like body words and they love creepy tonsils and things like that, and so I think it hits the mark. So after tonsils, do we get a sneak peek of what might be in the pike? 

20:14 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
well, it's in the book, it's in the back, so you get a little sneak peek. So it's uh, here's. I love, I love. I don't know how this idea came out, but I love that. Simon schuster, you know, when justin, our editor, said, uh, let's do, let's do three, uh, to start with, and we'll go from there, he, he could have been like and we're gonna do one a year. Uh, I mean that that wouldn't have been unheard of, that would have been totally normal. Um, but he didn't do that. He said no, we're going to release all three in one school year. We're going to do fall, early spring, late spring, boom, boom, boom. And I am so excited about that. Librarians have been losing their minds to me when, when they email me and stuff and they're like we get all three, we get all new. Wait, are you telling me we get three new creepy books in one school year? 

21:04 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
That's really awesome, Especially kids who are reading those. They tend to be series readers and so they really want to lap up that next book. 

21:12 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
Yeah, yeah. So book two comes out, I believe in February, and it's called Jasper Rabbit's Creepy Tales. Book two Unsettling Salad. And then book three and it features. You can see, there's two best friends on here, there's a badger and a possum. That are the main characters. And then book three is called Yarn Is Everything and it's about a mole who, um, is obsessed with crochet and, uh, it has a crochet experience of the very, uh, weird kind. 

21:52 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I I think you just need to say the phrase mole obsessed with crochet a few more times. That is. That just makes me giggle. I love that, that and I love your books. I mean not just the Creepy Series. I have enjoyed all of your books in both of your catalogs, because when you're writing together it's this magical alchemy have sort of your own unique storytelling that happens in other worlds as well. What drives your inspiration? Sort of what are you each working on now when you're not working on the Creepy series? 

22:36 - Peter Brown (Guest)
Let's see. Well, my life has sort of been taken over by the Creepy books and then the Wild Robot series. I have a lot of other stories I want to tell too, but my newest book that just came out in June was a Wild Robot picture book and sort of an adaptation of the first novel into picture book form. But as the author and the illustrator of both the novel and the picture book, it's a little bit of a unique situation because I can do all of it. You know, I'm. I think I was able to have a more kind of creative adaptation process as both the author and the illustrator than maybe if I'd just been doing one or the other alone only and then adapting it somehow. So it was actually a really fun creative challenge. But you know, these are the stories that I'm pretty focused on at the moment and I'm eager to move on to other stuff. 

23:31
I have a lot of ideas that involve science fiction, that involve fantasy, most of which incorporate nature. Most of my ideas for my own stories come from nature in one way or another. You know, I live in Maine, out in the woods. I love being here with the fresh air in the woods and there's rivers nearby and animals walking through the yard, and it's a pretty inspiring place. Me excited about a story is usually some sort of surprising combination of nature and fantasy, or nature and technology or science fiction, you know. So I think that'll probably for my own books that I'm making for myself. That'll probably keep me busy for the foreseeable future. But what about you, aaron? What's, what's your big motivation? 

24:24 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
Again, like you, I I have more stories than I'll ever be able to tell crammed into my head and I used to feel like, oh, I need to hurry and write these down. I need to write them. And as time has gone on maybe getting older or maybe just as my career has advanced I feel a lot more relaxed about that. I feel like there's time for every story that I'm going to tell, and so I jot notes and then I release them to come back to when their time is right. And so these days, right now, I'm all creepy all the time. I'm uh, you know, we just we just wrapped up this series. It's launching. 

25:10
I put a lot of of my time and energy very purposefully into visiting schools. Um, to me that is a. To me that is a. To me that is. It's not for every author it's not, but for me it is this wonderful, right balance of being completely alone with a group of kids and how you interact with a group of kids, inform your stories. I get to test not specific material but just my own sense of humor. Like kids evolve, kids change. Kids from today are not the same kids from 20 years ago, and so that keeps me tied into my audience because I constantly know when a joke is working, I'm like, okay, okay, my sense of humor is tuning in. When jokes fall flat, or jokes that would have worked five years ago fall flat, I'm like, okay, okay, fine tune, fine tune, because I want to constantly keep my sense of humor, my imagination, broad and fresh and vital enough for every kid going forward. So so, so, yeah, I I'm. 

26:46
I'm focused right now on thinking about a fourth creepy picture book. My editors made it very clear they want that very much. So I said the story's got to be right. Story comes first. It's got to be the right story and if that happens then, yes, we'll do one, but we're not just going to do one just because and I want to write more of these chapter books I have so many stories that I am just itching to write that are weird and exciting, that are weird and exciting, and so that's kind of where my brain is living these days. Whatever I'm focused on, it's going to be weird and funny. That's what motivates me is that I get to write, I get to make a living writing, making up weird, funny stories. What? My second grade? Oh, my second grade teacher. 

27:50
She was like you need you goof around too much. I'm like I make a living goofing around lady. 

27:55 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Have   t

27:55
looked her up to let

27:56
her know? 

27:56
that I haven't. I haven't. You're Aaron's second grade teacher. You heard it here. He's making a living being goofy. Last question for you all today, and it's a question I like to finish up with everybody what currently brings you hope. 

28:13 - Peter Brown (Guest)
Oh boy, that's a good one. 

28:15 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It's a tough question, but I feel like we need hope more than ever, so I try to remember what we can do to be hopeful. 

28:22 - Peter Brown (Guest)
You know, I think we're really lucky that we write for children because, even though it might seem a little cliche, I will say that when I meet kids, young people who are reading my books, our books, they give me hope. Actually, you know, because, like, I meet these young people and they're good people, right, they're imaginative and they're kind and they care about their classmates and and their teacher. You know, they care about their community. It's like everything is good with these young folks, like let's, how can we preserve that? The problem is you. You know they grow up and they turn into other things over time. 

29:00
So but if I get hope, because I feel like if we can, if we can do a better job of harnessing all the goodness wrapped up in these little people, then then there's always a bright future. Like I always feel hope for the future because I always think, well, maybe this is, you know, maybe this group here is going to go on to do big things when they're older. You know, because you can see it's such a clear contrast and you've got the news. You turn on the news or whatever, and everything is so depressing right now. And then you go into a school and you meet these young people who are so full of life and just enthusiasm and you can't help leaving feeling like there's hope, you know. 

29:40
So I'm glad I write for kids. People always ask like, why don't you write for adults? And I'm like, oh my gosh, I think I'd be. I don't think I could do it. I don't think I could stomach it because you walk out of an auditorium filled with adults and you're not filled with hope. I'm sorry, unless it's a very specific gathering. Overall, you don't have that same sense of being energized from your audience that you get when you talk to a group of young people. 

30:03 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Makes sense and that's a plug also for grownups to read more children's books. 

30:08 - Peter Brown (Guest)
Sure absolutely. 

30:12 - Aaron Reynolds (Guest)
Inversely you're more hopeful as well. How about you, aaron? Yeah, it's a hard question these days to answer. I mean, I echo some of what Pete says about kids. I'm glad my audience is kids. 

30:27
I have really made the choice in the last year to really disengage from social media, from current affairs, current events you know current events, news, because I insist upon hope and that steady flow was bringing me down bad and I'm like no, no, I refuse, I refuse, I defy it. And so kids? Kids aren't watching the news. They're not, you know. They're certainly on social media and they're absorbing what their parents are, you know, blabbing about, but that's not their main focus. Fact that we get to write for kids. 

31:20
But I think the other thing that gives me hope is the depth of human imagination. I get to make my living making stuff up and in this era where AI art and you know there's so much controversy about that and my dad keeps asking me how do you feel about all this AI art and ai writing and ai and I say it's not great, but I, but I don't, I, I, I have not lost hope about it because I stand by the fact that, while ai um is is great at copying stuff and absorbing all that's out there and then spitting it back out out in some facsimile form. It will never be a match for human imagination. And I get to get paid to use my imagination and that is a hopeful thing. That is a very hopeful thing to me. 

32:15 - Dr Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I love that. Well, Aaron Reynolds and Peter Brown, thank you for sharing your imaginations with us. Troubling Tonsils is out this week and I will drop the links in the show notes. Thank you for joining us on this week's Adventures in Learning. 

32:28 - Peter Brown (Guest)
Thanks for having us. Thanks, this has been fun.