The Everything Trail: From Redwood Resilience to the Wilds of South Africa with Author Meg Fleming

Imagine a world where walking out the door inspires adventure and a love of nature, from tiny bugs on the sidewalk to giant redwoods standing sentinel. Could it be that these adventures can inspire systemic change? On Episode 152 of the Adventures in Learning podcast, author Meg Fleming chats with Dr. Diane about the power of sparking wonder, curiosity, and connection to the natural world.

Known for weaving musicality with storytelling, Meg is the author of such books as I Heart You, Sometimes Rain, Sounds Like School Spirit, Rock That Vote, Wondering Around, and I Live in a Tree Trunk. Her latest book, The Everything Trail is a lyrical nature inspired narrative that captures the ability of kids to transform simple hikes and outings into major adventures of discovery (and the illustrations by Chuck Groenink elevate the reader into the redwood forest).

This week, Meg and I are traveling with CBCC (Children's Book Creators for Conservation). Meg shares some of her transformative experiences from her first trip to South Africa with Wild Tomorrow, highlighting the profound connection between humanity, habitats, and wildlife. 

We invite you to join us on our adventure! If you have any questions about the wildlife, conservation efforts, or community connections, please leave them in the comments. We’ll do our best to answer them or find answers while we’re there. 

Timestamps

01:09 - Writing Lyrical Children's Books, The Adventures in Learning of Author Meg Fleming

04:49 - Nature's Wonder: The Inspiration Behind The Everything Trail

09:59 - Connecting to nature in big and small ways for engaged learning

14:10 - Using school visits to spark curiosity, wonder, and connection to the planet

16:21 - Conservation, Connection, and Returning to South Africa with CBCC and Wild Tomorrow

0:34:15 - Inspiring Hope Through Nature and Children

Links

Meg Fleming's Official Website

Follow Meg, Dr. Diane, and CBCC on Instagram

Purchase The Everything Trail

Transcript

00:02 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So welcome to the Adventures in Learning podcast. I am delighted to introduce my brand new friend to you. Meg Fleming is an incredible author. She's a fabulous human being. We're going to be going to South Africa together on an amazing conservation adventure, but more than that, she has written some of the best books for back to school. You know, if you're looking for stuff about school spirit and rocking that vote, she's your person and her brand new book is everything. I have absolutely fallen in love with this book that is out this month. Everything Trails is coming out and we're going to talk about it and it is just glorious and you need to go run to your library, run to your indie bookstore right now and grab these books, settle in and join us for today's adventure in learning. Meg, welcome. 

00:54 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Thank you so much for having me, diane. It's so great to be here, I am so happy you are here. 

01:01 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
You know I always like to start with finding a little bit more about my guest's adventures in learning, so you weren't always an author. How did you get to this? 

01:09 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
So I was not always an author. I was always, um, as a kid, someone who played with words, and I got really into music as a um, mainly around um middle school and into high school. I was um very much into vocal music and performance and drama, and but I always kept a journal and I had a. I had a seventh grade teacher who taught us to journal and to regularly do creative writing, and so, all through all through high school, all through college, I was studying music. At that time I um I journaled and at the same time consumed a whole lot of lyrics because I was studying choral music, and so um lyrics are. They just are. It's like eating. It's like eating um tomes of um well-placed words, like eating a thesaurus that all rhymes or is all rhythmically related. And so I come to this space of writing with a musical background and I can't tell you what came first the love of words or the musicality. 

02:22 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Well, and you can hear that in your books, like when you read the text, there's definitely that musicality. And, and you can hear that in your books, like when you read the text, there's definitely that musicality. And even if I hadn't known this about you, I would have asked you about it because it feels like you're reading song lyrics, and particularly in this latest book. So I just I really love them. Can you talk a little bit about your body of work and just share your books for those who might not be familiar? 

02:44 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Yes, so I, um, I have this month, um, as mentioned, my 11th book coming out. It's called the everything trail and, um, that's my newest, um. My first book is called I heart you. It's a love letter to children. And then my second and third were a team. It was ready set sail and ready set build. 

03:06
Those are building and sailing books. And then I have a bundle of nature books, so sometimes rain and here comes ocean. They are in a similar vein as the everything trail, as well as wandering around, which is also an outside nature book. And then I have the school books that set in the school Sounds Like School Spirit and Rock, that Vote. Those are high energy classroom tools. I was a teacher before I was a writer, and so they're like a welcome back to school and a let's be fair, really rhythmic and really fun. And then I have some silly books called I Was Born a Baby and I Live in a Tree Trunk and those are all baby names and animal names, kind of hilarious slapstick delivery. So it is to me and the illustrator just nailed it with the eye contact and yeah, so that's what I think. That's all 11. And I have another book coming out next year, so that is fabulous. 

04:18 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
So let's talk a little bit about the Everything Trail, because that one is brand new and out and it's gotten starred reviews and everybody is just loving it, including me. So can you share a little bit about this book with our audience? 

04:32 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Yes, I have to hug it while I'm talking about it. It is okay. So it technically isn't out yet. It comes out August 26th and it is Ooh okay. So you know this. 

04:48
But I just moved across the country from California to Minnesota, sorry, and I was inspired to write this book After the Redwood trees, there was a big, there were big wildfires in our area, in my own sister's backyard, basically she lives in the Santa Cruz mountains and and everyone was working together to to help save people's homes, to save the forest, big basin, andin and Henry Cowell Woods. There was a lot of damage done, a lot of loss, but I wrote a great deal of the beginnings of this book in the spring of 2021, when the paths reopened and I was able to walk again through the forest and see the regrowth, and see the new buds mixed with ash, but the you know how the earth always reclaims itself and also to see the redwoods holding strong and it was so powerful. I was so blown away. And, um, you know they are. They call them the resilient Redwoods. 

06:07
And this isn't a book just about Redwoods. It's really a love of the forest, a love of nature, a love of the woods. Um, every illustration. Oh, and it's on the vertical. So the illustrator, chuck Gronick, just did a stunning job. That is not page one, but I promise you you can open up to any page in this book and it is glorious. It's like experiencing a magnificent woods, just turning the page. 

06:39 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It really is, and that vertical. That's an unusual thing for a picture book to have each page turn take you to the vertical, but it gives you a sense of the scope of the forest and also the intimacy of it, like it's not just the tall trees, as you said, it's also the little things you see when you look down at the ground as well. 

06:59 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Yes, yeah, can I share a page Please? I was going to say share a couple of pages with us. I'm going to share the beginning to bring you in um, so this is the opening line, so you get a sense of the rhythm. And what I really love about this is you can feel when you walk into a forest that's big, this is about the size you feel like, just so tiny, yet in awe. So the words are this is the forest, this is the steeple giants and saplings and just a few people, and the rhythm goes on that way and um, I was let's see, we already saw this spread. 

07:40
I was really blown away by how Chuck captured the exact look and feel of being on a trail in the forest, like you really can feel. You can feel the temperature, you can feel, you can feel the cold, you can feel, like some pages, you can feel the warm, but it was I very, um, blown away. This is the example I was thinking of when you said when you pause and you look at small things, um, this is that way an eagle, this way a bug, fast like a falcon, slow like a slug, and the point is to appreciate the small as much as the big and um, and when we go on hikes and go on adventures, we we see the vast you have by yourself, like this, yes, smelling this, a smell that catches you, and so I hope that is contained in this book. Um, it really, I, um, I had an emotional response when, when I saw it for the first time and I, I read it, it, I, I cried, I, it just is. 

09:23 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
This page, I feel like, truly elicits that feeling of being part of something bigger and being important to to the greater, the greater whole, and so that book really is a hug, and I read it this weekend after my husband and I had gone for a hike in Massachusetts and we were near Amherst and didn't go to Mount Tom or any of the high peaks. 

09:59
We actually did a trail walk and there was no real destination, no vista at the end. I'm used to the hikes where you wind up at a vista, but what I appreciated about that hike was seeing the beauty everywhere, stopping and seeing the fungi that were growing in the trunks of the trees, or appreciating the way the brook was meandering and sort of the smoothness of certain rocks where the water had worn it away, the smell of the pine needles and you know just how soft they felt under the feet. The temperature changes, you know coming light to dark. You know feeling just that you could feel dappled light, and all of that comes through not just in your words but in the illustrations as well, and it's the kind of thing that I know we want kids and families to do more of, to be able to appreciate that wonder. You may not be able to go to the redwood trees and you may not have a forest right there, but there's always a little bit of nature, a place to take a walk, to engage and to love. 

11:05 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Always Like. I think it's as close as saying you're going for a hike and calling it a hike, and walking out your front door and deciding you're going to go on a tiny, a hunt for tiny things or a hunt for textures or a hunt for blue yes, just it's, and it can all be a hike and it's all accessible everywhere. It's just claiming that you're, you're taking that time and you're, you're, you're intentionally going for a hike. 

11:42 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Exactly when I worked. I've worked at both a preschool and in a children's museum and had opportunities to take groups out in both and I would always call it an adventure and we would go looking for stuff, you know, and then they would derail it and that was fine and I would go with where they went. But often we would look for, like, the rainbow, and we'd try to find colors that matched each of the colors in the rainbow. Or we might look for all the signs we could see, or how many bugs do we see today, how many different kinds of flowers? And you know, the possibilities were endless. 

12:14 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Yes, and with kids, all you have to do is say we're going on an adventure, and they're on it, yes, and and it's. 

12:24 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It's anything is possible, and this book really is such a great one to put in that category, not only for let's go on an adventure, but also as teachers are looking to explore habitats and biomes, because there's so much you can get from this very simple picture book in terms of what that habitat looks like and your place in it and the things that you can connect and how it all is connected. So definitely go out and get this book. It's really beautiful. 

12:56 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Thank you, Thank you very much. It's a piece of my heart, so it means the world that it's um just being read with the intention that I had hoped. 

13:10 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
That's wonderful. Now are you going to have an opportunity to go out on a book tour for this one? I know you're getting ready to go to South Africa, yes. 

13:19 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Yes, so, um, I will be. Before we go to South Africa, I will be returning to home in San Francisco and I'll be doing a little book tour in the Bay Area and then, as you know, we're taking a big hike over to South Africa, and then after that I have I do have a special event planned here in Minneapolis as well, so, that's wonderful, and I know you're also available for school visits for folks as well. 

13:52
Yes, I am available for school visits. So I have the information is on my website and it's megflemmingnet and you can find me there, and we'll put all of that into the show notes as well. 

14:06 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
What goes into a good school visit? Just out of curiosity. 

14:10 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Oh my gosh. Okay, for me it starts with well, everything I do starts with curiosity, and if I'm zeroing in on a particular book, I'm asking the question what is the curiosity fulfillment of this book? I think a good school visit includes new information. Well, it's a lot like teaching you take the known and then you have your new information and it becomes new, known, known, and then you have your new information and it becomes new, known. And I like to um our school visits sort of like a sort of like an adventure actually, where you go in and it's nice to meet you. Let me tell you a little bit um about, um, my adventure or my how I got here. Um, but then um, but then to actually take the kids on an adventure. So, and the adventure is the information you're consuming, but sometimes, like I have one, I'm sorry to talk about myself. 

15:18 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
You said in general, no, that's okay, Talk about yourself because that's your experience. 

15:23 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
So so I, um, I do have like a little adventure built into my school visit where we go on a safari and it's a, it's a um, it's a really nicely made video and um, the kids, you know, I ask them to put their thinking caps on and, um, and we go out on a safari adventure and they get to see and experience um, some of these wild um places and animals and hear the sounds and um, um. So I think, even if it's not um that particular version of um my visits, I do like to make the experience an adventure. I also take, like, sometimes I do a word hunt and we do like everything's sort of an adventure-based and then they have that and they tuck it away and hopefully use it in their creative pursuits. 

16:20 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I love that, you know. I think that anytime we can get kids engaged in these hands-on experiences, we build those connections and, as you said, we spark that wonder and curiosity which leads to wanting to know more and reading the next book, which may be by a different author, but going deeper into that topic, and so it's just. It's a lovely way to sort of spark interest in learning and building connections to the world around you. 

16:48 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
So interesting you say that because one of my presentations for younger kids is called spark the imagination, and then for older kids it's called resuscitate the imagination. 

16:57 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And so needed, because there's something that happens between that time in preschool and fifth grade where, yes, where, that spark gets dampened and we sort of get enmeshed in having to regurgitate things for a test, yes, and need to be reminded that we are creative, collaborative problem solvers and thinkers Yep, deep, deep thinkers. Yes, I love that you. You handle both. We're going to take a quick break and when we come back we're going to dive into all things South Africa. So then I'm going to do that for me, just to remind myself. And now welcome back to the show. We have Meg Fleming with us, and this is not your first trip to South Africa. You were part of the original group that went. Tell us about that initial trip and what's drawing you back. 

17:44 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Oh my gosh. Okay, I'm going to try not to cry. I'm an emotional gal, so I'll do my best. Um, so, um, the initial trip, um, it, it, it was mind blowing at every turn. And um, and we we mentioned a little bit earlier, big and small, like um, we had incredible experiences where we, um, we, we helped collar a elephant, the matriarch of a herd, and, um, I hope actually I brought this, um, this is a, this is a rock I picked up from from that day, just to like have a memory of it. But we also marveled at dung beetles and tiny, tiny insects and critters that we've never seen before. 

18:33
There were on top of a container where they were letting down the fences in one area and they needed to balance out the herds, and so we climbed on top. A container is a lot like where they put like racehorses when you're moving them across the country. And we climbed up top and a herd of wildebeest came in and we could see below us, like through the above window. We're peering down on these wildebeest, just like, let me get through, let me get through. And then came the impala or no, no, no, that was, that wasn't next. Next was the zebra, so there was a herd of zebra beneath us for about, I want to say it was 30 minutes of being above, very close, in a very unique perspective to wild zebra. And and then the next group was Impala, and it was life changing In a way I hadn't. 

19:56
I grew up in the wilderness. My parents took us on camping trips before it was in vogue and before Eddie Bauer or REI existed, and I grew up camping and this was an experience that really fused something in me, saying that connecting at um, connecting humanity to the animal world, and um, the best example that I have is that we have a lot of us have dogs and cats and we know like we call them my dog is right here Um, we, we, they're part of the family and um, and we could care about their habitat and make sure that they're fed and um, and we feel like they're relatable animals. This was the first time I had been so close to large animals and seeing their relationships with each other from from a safe distance, like from a distance, but also pretty close, and knowing that their communication style, with their communication with each other, is just as intricate as ours, if not more. And um, and I know we we've done some learning and we know that from whales and dark dolphins and um, and we're amazed that they communicate. But seeing the humanity of animals and how they interact with each other, um, it pierced my heart and habitats, because if they don't have a place to lay their head, they cannot survive Right. 

21:55
And so it was life changing in such an unexpected way. I knew it was going to be great. Um, I didn't know why. I mean, I kind of knew why. I didn't know what I was getting into. And um, yeah, I'm going back because I feel I have to. My heart is pulled and um, um, the um, sometimes I think that you do things without knowing why, completely, and um, and then you find out later. And I have been finding now, ever since I returned, the why I went, but also feeling like I have more questions and more to do. 

22:51 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
That's exciting. And Wild Tomorrow, which is the group that we're going over to work with, you've had a chance to sort of sit side by side with what they do. Why is it so important to support organizations like this? 

23:07 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
It's important to support organizations like Wild Tomorrow because they're taking extra care to put the environment and the animals first, simultaneously educating the community so that they too can put the environment and the animals first. And so Wild Tomorrow, really, they do authentic and deep work that is always building up it's building up the community and um saving so many, so many habitats and also animals lives. And so, um, um, it's multifaceted, um, um, it's multifaceted and um I would say, like you can go somewhere and see great things and go on a tour and get a good feeling of what it's, what, what the wild is like, um, but it's really wonderful to go when you know that their mission is really and truly helpful. 

24:33 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
And you know, we talk a lot about the need for deep systemic change, both here in the US and in other places, and that's one of the things I've been impressed with and can't wait to sort of see in action is the idea that you're working from the ground up, that the community is taking the lead in the problem solving and that it's all connected the education, the employment, the animals, the habitat, the environment and I think that's something that we have been failing to see in this country and failing to see it, to our own detriment perhaps, and so I'm really excited to learn for me, in terms of what can we bring back and what can we apply to our own community work. 

25:17 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Yes, yeah, I um it. It's incredible to see all the moving parts and to see, um, all the volunteers and staff members working together, um, and, and this is not small, but they have, uh, a place where they, um, they are trying to create more colonies of bees, and we know how important bees are and, um, that's another thing that it's in our world. That's seemingly small, that carries a lot of weight, and it's interesting to see and watch everybody doing their part. And I'm picturing right now where we stayed the last time, it was a camp called Shishlui and there were all these people out doing controlled burns, camp called Shishlui, and there were all these people out doing controlled burns. And, um, just getting to the point where, um, where everybody knows people know how to do that and why, um, um, it's, it's, um, it's a huge, um, it's a huge feat and it's a huge, it's a huge feat and it's a huge coordination, coordinated effort to bring, come about, bring about systemic changes. 

26:51 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
You're saying it's hard to teach, like it's hard to take a big concept and teach it In small ways and to recognize that all of those little steps add up to the big thing. Yes, yes, because we operate, I think, often out of a I want to wave a magic wand and make it all get fixed now, and that's not the way it works, that it takes all of these ripples to. 

27:19 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Yeah we were not, we were, so'll do. You'll get to do sundowners. Every night there's sundowners and it's at the end of the night, um, um, when the sun goes down, you pause and you have a little Bev and um watch the sunset across the Savannah. And um, we were this one particular location that we stopped and you just stop and take the time and and we were looking out on the whole Savannah and it looked like. It was the first time I ever felt like I was on a planet and I was like we're on a planet, and I was like we're on a planet, like, but the planet I was looking at had previously been, so now it was a wild, it was a wild space. 

28:11
Prior to that it was a, it was a beef farm, a cattle farm, it was also a pineapple farm and a cotton farm, and all that time, when it was being used as an agrarian, for agrarian use, it couldn't be home to these giant herds of animals, to these giant herds of animals, and so to stand there and to see um Neala running through, or um, or rhinoceros or any of these animals running through, it wasn't for a lot, for, you know, 50 plus years. It wasn't home to the animals, and so that's what that's part of the big thing that Wild Tomorrow does, is they, um, they help, um, coordinate, um, um? Well, they have like corridors that they try to connect to make more and more land for the animals to call home. 

29:13 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Which is huge, because we need to protect and preserve those spaces and to find ways to live in harmony and support those ecosystems that we depend on for our own survival as a species. 

29:27 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Yes, yeah, it's, it is us, and but it's also not just us. 

29:34 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Yes, you know we're all connected or interbeing, and I think that that's something I'm looking forward to experiencing. I know it mentally, but to experience it on that deep core, soul, soul, place. It's profound and I'm looking forward to sharing it with teachers and students and families as well. You know, one of the things that I'm hoping to do as my contribution going is to be able to do videos that we can bring back and to share, you know, to communicate, and so if there's a teacher or student listening who's got questions, include them in the comments, because we'll do our best to answer them or to find answers for you while we're there, you know, because this is as much your trip as it is ours. 

30:20 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Yes, yeah, I that's. That's wonderful. That's part of the reason I'm coming back, why and I know that John and Haley Rocco have done, done this Actually, everyone who came back part of their school visits is to provide this experience for for the students and that makes so much sense. 

30:44 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It's opening the doors to a world that's deeper than we are, that's bigger than we are, because if we don't know, how on earth can we fall in love with it or protect it? 

30:57 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
That's exactly you know. Or protect it, that's exactly you know. Um, that is the reason I wrote this book, the everything trail. Um it, it isn't, um, it isn't like a whole lesson plan to go to go outside, but, um, if, if children aren't exposed to these things, they don't know to love them, and it's through loving them that there's care and they take care, and so it's um, it doesn't sound like a huge thing to go for a hike or an adventure or a walk, but humans fall in love with nature when they're in it, and children need as much of that as possible, so that it seems like a small thing, but so that they can take care of this planet. 

31:58 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
It's a love it and to be in it. And if you're a grownup who's forgotten what it is to go outside to play, to shut down the cell phone maybe that's the challenge is to just turn it off and go for a walk, yeah, yeah, and let yourself be open to what you see. And then go down those rabbit holes, yeah, chase them. Find the joy again, because I think that that's a huge part of it it's being able to play in nature and to appreciate nature and to build those connections wherever you are. 

32:36 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Yeah, and I do agree. I think it's adults just as much as children. You know, our lives are busy and we get swept away, but really like it's I was saying this with someone the other day we're all one wall away from the great outdoors. 

32:53 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Yes. 

33:03 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Like we can take that literally, but basically we're one wall away. 

33:06 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
Just all we have to do is step through the door. I love that. So, Meg. Last question I want to ask for today is what brings you hope? 

33:15 - Meg Fleming (Guest)
Oh gosh, what brings me hope is is really you've primed this question everything we're talking about so we have um, a lot of good, a lot of good going on Um and um. I find hope when, um I get together with kids and when I have the opportunity to talk to them and find out what's going on in their world and and spend time with them and share, share nature really with them. I think it basically that, not to be redundant, but everything we've been talking about I do feel is hopeful, that there are programs around where we can um, um, we can um help our animals, help our environment, help our habitat and um, really great, really great kids who are just eager to learn and eager to absorb and be sponges. So I would say it's really, it's really being around children. 

34:30 - Dr. Diane Jackson Schnoor (Host)
I love that. Well, meg Fleming, thank you for joining us on the Adventures in Learning podcast. The Everything Trail is out now, folks, so please go get it, and we look forward to hearing your questions about South Africa and to following up when we get back from our trip. Thanks for joining us today.